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Tech Tip: Question Winter - time to practice and learn knots

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by ratagonia, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. LonePeak

    LonePeak

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    Thanks, I figure I've learned enough here to take a few minutes writing up a contribution. I'm not an arborist, but I figure they know what they're doing. I just like knots.
    ratagonia likes this.
  2. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    the Distel hitch is a good performer and I used it on my wire ore flipline for tree work for a while. However, I am using a new knot and seeing how I like it. The Michoacan http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/arborist-knots-photo-430.html#photo

    jury is still out as Ive only managed to work with it for two climbs .
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  3. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    The readout in the video is in decanewtons (daN). The video features two tests* involving a knot block against a rapide: the first one [2:40] is with a properly-sized (i.e. small enough) rapide and so the knot block holds and the rope breaks at 1400 daN. In the second test [3:07] the narrator says that if the rapide is too big, the knot can slip through the rapide, which is what happens in this test at 1020 daN. Nevertheless, they reckon that 1020 daN is good enough for a rappel, so that's why Mr. Death Head (or David S. Pumpkins) doesn't pop up. Unfortunately, "too big" and "small enough" are not readily quantifiable given the variable of soft-n-squishy rope. And that's one reason we have the beloved 'biner block - generally preferred over a knot block in canyoneering.

    * In test#1 the knot is a Flat Overhand Bend aka Offset Overhand Bend. Test#2 features the Flat Figure 8 Bend aka Offset Figure Eight Bend. The solid white cord used throughout the video is Beal 5 mm pure dyneema—very slippery stuff.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  4. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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  5. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    The 5mm pure dyneema essentially sets a "boundary" on rope performance. The slippreist stuff possible.

    Tom
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  6. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    Hey Brian
    cool fodder.
    Surprised Topher would recommend the barrel without any testing to back it up.
    He can rap on it
    We'll watch.
    :D
  7. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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  8. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    I am with you on this one and use the stacked (double) EDK for joining rappel ropes.
    Also a big fan of the 'triple' clove hitch for biner blocks
    :D
    dakotabelliston likes this.
  9. hobo_climber

    hobo_climber

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    And now for something completely different...

  10. LonePeak

    LonePeak

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    I've added a good amount of info to my post at the end of the first page of this thread, and a couple of questions.
    Q1 Best knot for biner block? Constrictor > triple clove > clove > single strand stone? Is the last one safe?
    Q2 How much sheath damage or core denting/warping does it take to make a rope unsafe for rappelling?
    Rapterman likes this.
  11. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    Answer 1: Best to worst in that order
    Answer 2: If you can see the core, it's unsafe.
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  12. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    When you go out with Bootboy, use the Constrictor knot.

    Otherwise, either a conventional (double) clove hitch or the triple clove hitch is a better choice, because more people know those knots and can inspect them; whereas if you use the Constrictor, only you and Bootboy know how to tie it and thus can inspect it.

    It is useful to have people inspect your work. The clove hitches are also fairly easy to teach to other people.

    Tom :moses:
  13. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    Take the time to learn it. It's fast, simple, and secure.

    You may come to appreciate its virtues.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  14. townsend

    townsend

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    On tying the constrictor knot:
    1) bootboy's post (w/ step by step pictures): http://canyoncollective.com/threads/biner-block-rigging-question.18493/#post-75222
    2) Hank's post (with video): http://canyoncollective.com/threads/biner-block-rigging-question.18493/#post-75230
    3) townsend (yours truly) post: http://canyoncollective.com/threads/constrictor-knot.21958/

    My post/method is a rehash of bootboy, but it does cover in more detail whether you are left- or right-handed, establishing the following principle: after you pull the outer loop under the inner loop, ALWAYS twist/rotate that loop AWAY from the (imaginary) midline of your body.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    LonePeak likes this.
  15. LonePeak

    LonePeak

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    +1 for the Constrictor. It can be funny to figure out until you play around with it a bit, but it's so useful. It's easily tied in the bight then dropped over anything you want gripped securely: a biner, a water bottle, the cut end of a rope as whipping, several loops of a butterfly coil that you don't want getting tangled with other sections when you toss them sequentially because you didn't want to feed and carry a rope bag, or that scrubber that didn't come with a hole to hang on a hook above your kitchen sink. Kinda like duct tape. ;) (Red Green)

    Or tie your bike to the rack with a clove hitch then pass the working end around an interior strand to make it a secure constrictor.

    It might not hold an icicle for too long like the Icicle hitch, but you could try the related Boa for that. Or a boom hitch, or a helical hitch.

    I agree with inspecting knots (and backing them up where applicable), but I think the best knots should be selected to catch on rather than leaving it to the fickle evolutionary course of popularity.

    Here's yet another helpful animation. I like the twist method.
    http://www.animatedknots.com/constr...w.animatedknots.com&Categ=boating#ScrollPoint
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
    gajslk likes this.
  16. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Here's some other things for us-all to work on.

    I gotta get better scissors...

    Ropework Video
    townsend likes this.
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