White Pass

So Friday I picked up my Telephone / Not Imlay permits. I pleaded my case and could not get a white pass for them. And it is legitimate, I didn't need a white pass, just wanted one.

The ranger at the desk said they had a meeting and were only issuing white passes for Imlay & Heaps. I'm sure there will always be a few excpetions here and there, but it seems that is going to be the new norm / standard for the situation.

I can see that, Tele-hunin or tele/not imlay combo really doesn't need them. I haven't done the T/NI combo but T/B can be done in about 10-11 hrs with a good crew so plenty of daylight except the shortest days of the year. The only reason I got them was because I could and to beat the heat on the hike up, also having your car their when you finish the canyon and not having to ride the shuttle was certainly a plus as well.

Just picked up my Telephone/behunin permits this morning and they didn't even hesitate to give me the white pass, just asked for it for an early start and they said ok. I guess I'm lucky.

I'm sure it's the same as everything in life, just depends on who you talk to

That's for sure

I think you have been flag as a trouble maker. Better check and see if you express membership has been cancelled

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Funny guy. And yes, I do have an express pass again. It is pretty bad when the Rangers know you by name though.

We did "Telephunin" last fall and they didn't want to give a white pass. So we ended up dropping off three of the four-person group and all the gear at the grotto well before sunrise then, the I drove the truck back down to the canyon junction and parked then rode a cheap bike back to the grotto and left it there. After we finished the canyons I just rode the bike back down to where I parked and the rest of the group took the shuttle. Really did not add more than 20min to our overall time and we still got a super early start. It's an easy ride and bypasses some of the hassles

One of the rules explained to me is you can not drive the road, even off hours, with out a pass during shuttle season. A LE ranger may ticket you. Anyone know if this is still the case or was I given bad info.

Not chastising you. I've considered the risk reward in the past. Just passing along the info to others.

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I have been pulled over once, and questioned at the Lodge lot once, both times picking up after-shuttle canyoneers. Both times told cars aren't allowed. Both times seems it wasn't worth the hassle to ticket us. YMMV.

We were able to get one last weekend but it was for one day use only and they were reluctant to give. Said it has been abused overtime.

Anyone have recent experience--positive or negative--on getting a white pass for Telephunin? Looking for an early start this weekend, but I fear getting the pass will be even harder given the shuttle ticket system in place.

As I wrote a while back, I have been rejected for a white pass (now a neon green color) specifically for Telephunin, a couple years ago, sorry not recent. That being said, I too believe that it kinda depends on who is working, not so much on an overreaching policy, but I may be wrong. I did get a white pass for a Heaps trip just a couple weeks back, and it was no problem, I don’t think the state of the shuttle tickets and everything is affecting it too much, if at all. Hope that helps. Also of note for the future of this thread, the NPS service, as of last year, has a gate at the entrance to the scenic drive at canyon juction that is opened via a key combo. From my experience, this combonation is given to the "white pass" holder at the time of aqusition. You could drive around said gate, but that would be unadvised and potentially bring the wrath of the law.

A person could always just spend the night in the outhouse...eh Tom? Still feel bad about that...

But...for either Heaps or Telephunin, couldn't one just park outside the scenic drive and walk to the car? My math has it at 2.7 miles is all. From the TOS it's over 6 miles so that'd be a grind on top of a long day.

I've walked that scenic drive park road sans shuttle, late at night (coming off a wall climb). Kinda pleasant. No people. Quiet. Maybe just plan on that and don't worry about a pass?

Even being on the first shuttle still gives you plenty of time to get the combo in and get on the return shuttle without too much rush

Thanks for the inputs. I'm not too worried about catching an evening shuttle. . .except that my teenage daughter is joining. She's a very competent canyoneer, but the uphill will be slow. We will certainly be flexible after Telephone.

At any rate, we got some new feedback via email from Zion--looks like a hard "no":

As for Telephone/Behunin, we do not issue a yellow pass. You must obtain the permit the day before and board the first shuttle at 7 am. You have over 12 hours to complete the trip. Last shuttle will be leaving from Temple of Sinawava at 7:15pm.

Ah-booo.... what email address did you use?

No Outhouse for me! When my canyon partner failed to figure out that at 10 pm he could just drive up the canyon and pick me up, back in those days... Due to food poisoning, I was running a fever and had not appetite. So I just bedded down on the concrete at Big Bend, and slept reasonably well. All good.

Tom

Yellow Dart, it was:
zion_park_information@nps.gov

From the comments above I took the email response as the opinion of at least one individual. Who knows the disposition of whoever is at the desk at the time.

At any rate, I'm no longer worried about speed now that my daughter decided studying for her AP Calculus test next week is a higher priority than canyoneering. Kids these days! I've tried to get them to miss school lots of time and never works. And now they burn a full Saturday for studying. I'm still shaking my head. I have failed as a parent.

Worth noting while the shuttles are still operating under covid rules:
The shuttles will not drop off canyoneers at Canyon Junction, even if your permit (acting as your shuttle ticket) has you escape vehicle at CJ.

Or at least the one douchebag driver we had yesterday was obstinate about. His accent was not local, and his tone/attitude were not very Utahn either. Was not interested in what my permit said.

Closest he'd drop us was the Lodge. 3 bonus miles at the end of the day was a bit annoying. Good thing I've got that savage DNA that had me run it in under 25min. (Spite makes me fast.)