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Valdotain and cowstail

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by Koen, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. Koen

    Koen Guest


    The French Braid has tremendous holding power. Kesler and I observed > two pieces of 8mm french braid on 11 mm rope from Ken Laidlaw in a > cave rescue course. He had pulled on the braid until the system > broke. The braid did not fail, the mainline broke. The braid was > fused into the mainline. So this would be very strong, say when > building highlines.
    It is great for descending vertical ropes under tension or on a > looped rope wherein a person would first descend at an angle and then > ascend.
    It is so simple and useful that I carry 6 feet of cord in canyons. > A valdotain is the simplest and most versatile piece of equipment: you can descend, ascend, clamp rope in 10 different ways on single and double rope, use as a cows tail etc etc. But I repeat it's important to set it up to your own weight and most frequently used rope diameter. If not it might stick, not slide under weight when needed... but then, that'd probably be in an emergency and you can easily cut it, it's cheap. I carry mine around my waist, out of harms/rubbing way and ready to use. And good to keep my tummy in ;-).

    Cow's tail: It's equally important to realize that sling is not the ideal material to make a cowstail - in case of a fall, no matter how low the factor, you have zero shock absorbtion. The energyca/spelegyca was designed to tear at the seams, although Petzl stopped advertising it as such (to prevent people seeing it as a full-fledged shock absorber like a zyper or because it's not very consistent - I don't know of any tests on this, I do have plenty of old & used energyca's in case someone wants to try :) ??).

    Koen
  2. We would be glad to pull it apart in the lab. You can send it to me at: William Lawrence, MD, 303 West 5th St., San Bernardino, CA 92401. Are you interested in a dynamic or static test?

    We ripped up a fellow caver's cowstail in dynamic testing. I do not recall the data. Steve Kesler, do you recall how it faired?

    Sonny

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Koen" <pocoloco@s...> wrote:

    > The French Braid has tremendous holding power. Kesler and I > observed
    two pieces of 8mm french braid on 11 mm rope from Ken > Laidlaw in a
    cave rescue course. He had pulled on the braid until the > system
    broke. The braid did not fail, the mainline broke. The braid was
    fused into the mainline. So this would be very strong, say when
    building highlines.

    It is great for descending vertical ropes under tension or on a
    looped rope wherein a person would first descend at an angle > and then
    ascend.

    It is so simple and useful that I carry 6 feet of cord in canyons.
    > A valdotain is the simplest and most versatile piece of > equipment: you can descend, ascend, clamp rope in 10 different > ways on single and double rope, use as a cows tail etc etc. > But I repeat it's important to set it up to your own weight and most > frequently used rope diameter. If not it might stick, not slide > under weight when needed... but then, that'd probably be in an > emergency and you can easily cut it, it's cheap. > I carry mine around my waist, out of harms/rubbing way and > ready to use. And good to keep my tummy in ;-).
    Cow's tail: It's equally important to realize that sling is not the > ideal material to make a cowstail - in case of a fall, no matter > how low the factor, you have zero shock absorbtion. > The energyca/spelegyca was designed to tear at the seams, > although Petzl stopped advertising it as such (to prevent people > seeing it as a full-fledged shock absorber like a zyper or > because it's not very consistent - I don't know of any tests on this, > I do have plenty of old & used energyca's in case someone > wants to try :) ??).
    Koen
  3. Rich Carlson

    Rich Carlson Guest

    Another option:

    Only one sling girth hitched to harness. Not a big fan of daisy chains either, especially the long ones. Not only bulky, but also more likely to set you up for a severe shock load. BlueWater sells 24" if you really want a daisy. You'll do just as well with a simple 24" sling.

    Short strand of cows tail does not need to be permanently afixed to harness. Canyon quickdraw is extremely versatile. When needed, can be used as short strand.
  4. The Spelegyca did in fact "rip apart at the seam" as intended, to help dissipate forces. In fact, I believe the cowstail tested survived several repeated test falls.

    Steven Kesler


    From: "William Lawrence" cr54r22@hotmail.com
    Date: 2005/01/25 Tue PM 10:11:51 GMT > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Valdotain and cowstail
  5. Weight aside, I've played with several things and like my Spelegyca hands down. If I'm doing something where weight/bulk are a real issue I go to a 'back country' system similar to what Tom described.

    Stevee asked about joining the cord with what knot - If using a loop of cord you can use a butterfly knot at the point you want to join leaving a short and long side. Other methods will work also.

    Neil

    Steven Kesler skesler@verizon.net> wrote: The Spelegyca did in fact "rip apart at the seam" as intended, to help dissipate forces. In fact, I believe the cowstail tested survived several repeated test falls.

    Steven Kesler


    From: "William Lawrence" cr54r22@hotmail.com
    Date: 2005/01/25 Tue PM 10:11:51 GMT > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Subject: [from Canyons Group] Re: Valdotain and cowstail






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  6. Tom Jones

    Tom Jones Guest

    A "canyon quickdraw" is a quickdraw with a locking biner on both ends. Very useful. You use a short draw, Rich? or a medium length one?

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Rich Carlson" <rcwildone@y...> wrote:
    Another option:
    Only one sling girth hitched to harness. Not a big fan of daisy chains either, especially > the long ones. Not only bulky, but also more likely to set you up for a severe shock > load. BlueWater sells 24" if you really want a daisy. You'll do just as well with a simple > 24" sling.
    Short strand of cows tail does not need to be permanently afixed to harness. Canyon > quickdraw is extremely versatile. When needed, can be used as short strand.
  7. Rich Carlson

    Rich Carlson Guest

    Draws are 4 or 5 inches long. When I first came up with the idea, used Petzl OK on one end, Petzl Attache on the other. Currently using Metolius locking asymetric D on one end, Stubai 3D on the other.

    Uses include: extending a contingency anchor, aiding in transition from rappel to ascend or ascend to rappel, passing a knot, converting block to lower, converting block to raising system, converting contingency anchor to raising system, short cowstail for systems like balancier, etc, etc, etc.

    > A "canyon quickdraw" is a quickdraw with a locking biner on both > ends. Very useful. You use a short draw, Rich? or a medium length > one?
    Tom
  8. Koen

    Koen Guest

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Rich Carlson" <rcwildone@y...> wrote:
    Draws are 4 or 5 inches long. When I first came up with the idea, used Petzl OK on > one end, Petzl Attache on the other. Currently using Metolius locking asymetric D on > one end, Stubai 3D on the other.
    Uses include: extending a contingency anchor, aiding in transition from rappel to > ascend or ascend to rappel, passing a knot, converting block to lower, converting > block to raising system, converting contingency anchor to raising system, short > cowstail for systems like balancier, etc, etc, etc.

    A "canyon quickdraw" is a quickdraw with a locking biner on both
    ends. Very useful. You use a short draw, Rich? or a medium length
    one?

    I don't like too much "links" in a system that supports your weight, gets twisted around, fallen on... keep it simple, keep it clean, keep it safe. I do carry such a "canyon quickdraw" along but when not in use it keeps the straps of my backpack together across my (very wide ofcourse :)) chest.

    Koen
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