Send us a suggestion!

TR: Oak Creek 27 Aug 04

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by John Styrnol, Sep 13, 2004.

  1. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    Was hoping to do "Eye of the Needle", but we could not find it. Instead we did an hairy 350' rap into Oak Creek. Oak Creek is an awesome canyon with some water running thru out. We also did our own little MIA exit (Too Far North) with some dicey climbing. Will attempt it again, but with someone who knows the right way in, will also stay overnight in Zion and hike out the next day. My thanks to Greg and Ben for their pictures.

    http://community.webshots.com/album/187452357jiCxbv

    John
  2. Dean Kurtz

    Dean Kurtz Guest

    >Was hoping to do "Eye of the Needle", but we could not find it. Instead we did an hairy 350' rap into Oak Creek.<

    Rap in a drainage/canyon? If so you were too far north and entered the middle drainage aka Chute. Eye of the Needle and Battle Creek are both spectacular routes, but Chute isn't worth the effort. Although my only experience with it is jugging out.

    >Oak Creek is an awesome canyon with some water running thru out.<

    Definitely a pretty and classy canyon.

    >We also did our own little MIA exit (Too Far North) with some dicey climbing.<

    My first attempt at the MIA was with someone who claimed they knew the way, but didn't. We ended up hiking out the Narrows. THAT was a loooong day.

    Dean
  3. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    "Rap in a drainage/canyon?"

    As far as we know we rapped into Oak Creek, but missed all the raps, more than .25 mile of the canyon at least. It was not a drainage or side canyon. Well maybe up above it was a drainage, the one shot where you see kind of a waterfall (black color) on the rock, that's just above where the rap was. A matter of fact I know the person who put the bolts up for that rap a couple of months back. He too missed the footbridge/route in.

    "My first attempt at the MIA was with someone who claimed they knew the way, but didn't. We ended up hiking out the Narrows. THAT was a loooong day."

    After what we went through, that would have been the best way to get out. LOL

    John







    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean Kurtz" <dkurtz@x> wrote:
    Was hoping to do "Eye of the Needle", but we could not find it. Instead we > did an hairy 350' rap into Oak Creek.<
    Rap in a drainage/canyon? If so you were too far north and entered the > middle drainage aka Chute. Eye of the Needle and Battle Creek are both > spectacular routes, but Chute isn't worth the effort. Although my only > experience with it is jugging out.
    >Oak Creek is an awesome canyon with some water running thru out.<
    Definitely a pretty and classy canyon.
    >We also did our own little MIA exit (Too Far North) with some dicey > climbing.<
    My first attempt at the MIA was with someone who claimed they knew the way, > but didn't. We ended up hiking out the Narrows. THAT was a loooong day.
    Dean
  4. adkramoo

    adkramoo Guest

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "John Styrnol" <j.styrnol@a...> wrote: > "Rap in a drainage/canyon?"
    As far as we know we rapped into Oak Creek, but missed all the raps,

    Oak Creek...3 forks...Your description fits the middle one perfectly...AKA Chute...The dud of the bunch... Next one north or south, next time... Both great. Safe Passage Ram
  5. Dean Kurtz

    Dean Kurtz Guest

    >Oak Creek...3 forks...Your description fits the middle one perfectly...AKA Chute...The dud of the bunch<

    Yeah, but from his last post and looking at the pictures, he wasn't in Chute.

    Dean
  6. adkramoo

    adkramoo Guest


    Yeah, but from his last post and looking at the pictures, he wasn't in > Chute. Dean

    Do we go "detective" now? John....When you hit Oak Creek, did you turn right to continue down? Was there flow in the creek? if not, how long before flow came in? (From the side canyon on the right?). Did you note the confluence with Kolob. Any other distinct features in the main canyon? Ram
  7. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    Yes, we turned right down stream. Yes, there was a flow in the creek. Yes, Greg actually went up Kolob (a side slot filled with water?). We never really ever notice any side canyons coming in, at least where you could come down from (rap or hike down). I believe we only did one more rap to avoid the deep part of a pool. Then came the MIA exit/cairn.

    John

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@a...> wrote:

    Yeah, but from his last post and looking at the pictures, he wasn't > in
    Chute. > Dean
    Do we go "detective" now? > John....When you hit Oak Creek, did you turn right to continue down? > Was there flow in the creek? if not, how long before flow came in? > (From the side canyon on the right?). Did you note the confluence > with Kolob. Any other distinct features in the main canyon? > Ram
  8. Dean

    Dean Guest

  9. Dean Kurtz

    Dean Kurtz Guest

    > Yes, we turned right down stream. Yes, there was a flow in the creek. Yes, Greg actually went up Kolob (a side slot filled with water?). We never really ever notice any side canyons coming in, at least where you could come down from (rap or hike down). I believe we only did one more rap to avoid the deep part of a pool. Then came the MIA exit/cairn.<

    Sounds to me like you guys went in somewhere between Kolob and Eye of the Needle. Needed to go further north.

    Dean
  10. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    I'm at work, so I cannot look at my pics, but that waterfall/black stuff on rock was about 200 yards behind us. The rap was a two stage, with the second stage about 200' down from the top. I would not called this a "chute", maybe the first 5' were. The drop itself was on rock all the way down, I guess you could have slid all the way, until you got to the second bolt then you would have went up like a slide and dropped the last 150' or so, would not be a good sight, but man what a ride. LOL The funny thing is we are not the only one's that did this route. If we only knew that it was a 350' drop and not 165' (at this point) we would not have been in a little trouble. I personally do not blame Shane's beta, but I was in the minority. We should never had dropped into this spot (we could not see the bottom at all), we should have kept looking for the footbridge. We were all glad that Greg got us down, but man it was a couple of hours later. Greg's calves/legs were sore all weekend standing in those cracks/ledges/moki steps for two hours or so. After all that, came the MIA exit and all it's fun (we screwed up again), where the turn to the left (south) was we did not see it. All-all it was a great time.

    John

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean" <dkurtz@x> wrote:
    Do we go "detective" now?<
    I don't think so. John says that this waterfall is directly above > the rap: > http://community.webshots.com/photo/187452357/187458730eXdnUG
    > In my trips to all three forks I have never seen this feature. > Also, look at the picture of Greg on the rap itself: > http://community.webshots.com/photo/187452357/187460247vQpqos
    > I don't know about you, but I spent a bunch of time jugging the big > drop in Chute, and that doesn't look like the same drop to me.
    Dean
  11. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    Wonder if I could find my way back and do it again. LOL It was fun, but would bring a longer rope or 2 60M and alot of pull cord.

    John

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean Kurtz" <dkurtz@x> wrote:
    Yes, we turned right down stream. Yes, there was a flow in the creek. > Yes, Greg actually went up Kolob (a side slot filled with water?). We never > really ever notice any side canyons coming in, at least where you could come > down from (rap or hike down). I believe we only did one more rap to avoid > the deep part of a pool. Then came the MIA exit/cairn.<
    Sounds to me like you guys went in somewhere between Kolob and Eye of the > Needle. Needed to go further north.
    Dean
  12. Dean Kurtz

    Dean Kurtz Guest

    Chute isn't much of a chute, either. First rap approx. 300' to a ledge with an eye bolt, second rap about 150' (I think, but don't completely remember) and one more drop that was I recall about 20'-25' then a real short walk to the confluence of Oak. Again, I did it in reverse so my memory may be a little skewed. Also, we did it in May and there were small snow drifts in the side canyons and huge snow piles (some 40+ feet high) in the main canyon that we had to climb over.

    Dean

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Styrnol" j.styrnol@att.net> To: <Yahoo Canyons Group> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] TR: Oak Creek 27 Aug 04

    > I'm at work, so I cannot look at my pics, but that waterfall/black > stuff on rock was about 200 yards behind us. The rap was a two > stage, with the second stage about 200' down from the top. I would > not called this a "chute", maybe the first 5' were. The drop itself > was on rock all the way down, I guess you could have slid all the > way, until you got to the second bolt then you would have went up > like a slide and dropped the last 150' or so, would not be a good > sight, but man what a ride. LOL The funny thing is we are not the > only one's that did this route. If we only knew that it was a 350' > drop and not 165' (at this point) we would not have been in a little > trouble. I personally do not blame Shane's beta, but I was in the > minority. We should never had dropped into this spot (we could not > see the bottom at all), we should have kept looking for the > footbridge. We were all glad that Greg got us down, but man it was > a couple of hours later. Greg's calves/legs were sore all weekend > standing in those cracks/ledges/moki steps for two hours or so. > After all that, came the MIA exit and all it's fun (we screwed up > again), where the turn to the left (south) was we did not see it. > All-all it was a great time.
    John
    > --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean" <dkurtz@x> wrote:
    >Do we go "detective" now?<

    I don't think so. John says that this waterfall is directly above
    the rap:
    http://community.webshots.com/photo/187452357/187458730eXdnUG

    > In my trips to all three forks I have never seen this feature.
    Also, look at the picture of Greg on the rap itself:
    http://community.webshots.com/photo/187452357/187460247vQpqos

    > I don't know about you, but I spent a bunch of time jugging the > big
    drop in Chute, and that doesn't look like the same drop to me.

    Dean

    > When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    Bombastic Bolt Debates are allowed to only a limited extent. Folks should go to the Canyoneer Group for a truly un-moderated forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyoneer
    > To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages.
    Groups Links

    >
  13. beadysee

    beadysee Guest

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean Kurtz" <dkurtz@x> wrote: > Chute isn't much of a chute, either. First rap approx. 300' to a ledge with > an eye bolt, second rap about 150' (I think, but don't completely remember) > and one more drop that was I recall about 20'-25' then a real short walk to > the confluence of Oak. Again, I did it in reverse so my memory may be a > little skewed. Also, we did it in May and there were small snow drifts in > the side canyons and huge snow piles (some 40+ feet high) in the main canyon > that we had to climb over.

    My notes say we jugged 180' then 280' with a mid station somewhere in between. And...you weren't that slow!

    > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Styrnol" <j.styrnol@a...
    To: <Yahoo Canyons Group
    Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:53 AM > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] TR: Oak Creek 27 Aug 04
    I'm at work, so I cannot look at my pics, but that waterfall/black
    stuff on rock was about 200 yards behind us. The rap was a two
    stage, with the second stage about 200' down from the top. I would
    not called this a "chute", maybe the first 5' were.

    I think you found someones ascent line (ie, a place where folks fix lines to get out of the canyon after doing one of the forks of Oak Creek). Makes for a fast trip to not hike out and up the MIA. Short day.

    Maybe folks need a bit of map and compass work? I'd think it'd be hard to miss any of the drainages on the map that are Oak Creek tribs. Very prominent and I thought pretty simple to locate. Hmmm...

    Not Mystery indeed...

    Brian in SLC
  14. Dean Kurtz

    Dean Kurtz Guest

    >My notes say we jugged 180' then 280' with a mid station somewhere in between. And...you weren't that slow!<

    There was still that one short jug right at the bottom of Chute. I jugged faster than some, slower than you, but I spent more time on that cliff than anyone. Remember, I was the last one up and waited on the intermediate station for everyone else to finish. Gave me plenty of time to examine the jug.

    Dean
  15. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    "I think you found someones ascent line (ie, a place where folks fix lines to get out of the canyon after doing one of the forks of Oak Creek)."

    Like I said before, I know the guy who put the bolts there in Jun, he had the same problem.

    "Maybe folks need a bit of map and compass work?" You're telling me, we had Shane's beta (directions/map), and a GPS. And we still screwed up. I think adrenaline was setting in too much.

    John



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "beadysee" <beadysee@y...> wrote: > --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Dean Kurtz" <dkurtz@x> wrote:
    Chute isn't much of a chute, either. First rap approx. 300' to a > ledge with
    an eye bolt, second rap about 150' (I think, but don't completely > remember)
    and one more drop that was I recall about 20'-25' then a real > short walk to
    the confluence of Oak. Again, I did it in reverse so my memory > may be a
    little skewed. Also, we did it in May and there were small snow > drifts in
    the side canyons and huge snow piles (some 40+ feet high) in the > main canyon
    that we had to climb over.
    My notes say we jugged 180' then 280' with a mid station somewhere > in between. And...you weren't that slow!
    > ----- Original Message -----
    From: "John Styrnol" <j.styrnol@a...
    > To: <Yahoo Canyons Group
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:53 AM
    Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] TR: Oak Creek 27 Aug 04
    > I'm at work, so I cannot look at my pics, but that > waterfall/black
    > stuff on rock was about 200 yards behind us. The rap was a two
    > stage, with the second stage about 200' down from the top. I > would
    > not called this a "chute", maybe the first 5' were.
    I think you found someones ascent line (ie, a place where folks fix > lines to get out of the canyon after doing one of the forks of Oak > Creek). Makes for a fast trip to not hike out and up the MIA. > Short day.
    Maybe folks need a bit of map and compass work? I'd think it'd be > hard to miss any of the drainages on the map that are Oak Creek > tribs. Very prominent and I thought pretty simple to locate. > Hmmm...
    Not Mystery indeed...
    Brian in SLC
  16. adkramoo

    adkramoo Guest

    > Sounds to me like you guys went in somewhere between Kolob and Eye of the > Needle. Needed to go further north. >Dean

    Agreed. Just checked out the map. Midway between Cave (Eye..) and Oak's confluence with Kolob is a steep drainage coming down to Oak from the NW. It is also connected to the same road system/developments around all the Oak accesses, so a wrong turn back a ways in that maze of roads....and who knows, you end up in that drainage. If true, stunning that there was bolts there. Were they antiques? Might could be an answer? Fits the facts, but... R
  17. adkramoo

    adkramoo Guest

    > Might could be an answer? Fits the facts, but... > R

    Except you say you know who placed the bolts? In June? And the GPS matched up with Shane's site? Really? R
  18. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol Guest

    No, did not match up with Shane's site. He could not find the footbridge, and I guess he came to that drop and found an old anchor, put in his own (but has a bad pull over some rough rocks) and went down. Not sure if he also placed the second stage bolt. Finding that damn footbridge was the problem.

    John

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@a...> wrote:
    Might could be an answer? Fits the facts, but...
    R
    Except you say you know who placed the bolts? In June? And the GPS > matched up with Shane's site? Really? > R
  19. I frequently confuse my testosterone for my adrenaline. The effects can be similar but testosterone clouds my judgment slightly more.

    Neil

    John Styrnol j.styrnol@att.net> wrote:

    "Maybe folks need a bit of map and compass work?" You're telling me, we had Shane's beta (directions/map), and a GPS. And we still screwed up. I think adrenaline was setting in too much.

    John





    Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
  20. adkramoo

    adkramoo Guest

    He could not find the > footbridge, and I guess he came to that drop and found an old > anchor, put in his own (but has a bad pull over some rough rocks) > and went down. Not sure if he also placed the second stage bolt.

    Can of worms...opened Methinks these anchors should be removed. The lure of the siren song.....Someone, unable to deal the big drop or without enough rope gonna get in trouble here. R
Similar Threads: Creek
Forum Title Date
Trip Reports Garden Creek - November 2018 Nov 8, 2018
General Discussion Conditions--- Kolob Creek currently has a *bit* of flow Sep 13, 2018
Trip Reports Portland Creek and Middle Oak 8/18-8/19 Aug 22, 2018
Trip Reports Benson Creek, Birch Hollow, Egypt 3, Goblin's Lair, Tenaya Canyon Aug 20, 2018
Accidents and Near Misses Near Miss in Pine Creek Aug 6 Aug 17, 2018
Trip Reports PNW Bush-a-neering in Deneau Creek Aug 13, 2018