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Tech Tip: Question Toolbox

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by madman_lee, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    Hi all,

    Did my first 60m rap, and I'm addicted. I'm looking for the next tool to add to my box. What lengths do you all have? And what should I go for? I haven't seen anything over 90m, am I being naive?

    Thanks

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  2. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    Experience.
  3. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    ^^^^
    There's longer stuff out there, but it's rare and they're mostly in off the radar type canyons. I'd focus on getting out in easier canyons, building your skills, and just enjoying the scenery, the long raps will still be there in a couple of years once you have the skills to handle them properly.
  4. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    What do you mean experience? I've already run through a 60m. I have plenty experience.

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  5. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    Thanks for the input, but why do you assume I dont have experience? I've got plenty experience.

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  6. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Depends on how you breakdown the addiction. Are you looking for canyons with big rappels or just big rappels?

    As @Tom Collins said, there are some in the canyons, if that's what you're after to satisfy the addiction. ZNP has a few 90m-ish raps in canyons that I'm aware of and I'm sure there are plenty others that I'm not. And there are some that are not intrinsically canyoneering.

    If you're just after big raps, well the world is at your finger tips, and you shouldn't have any trouble getting a regular fix.

    Maybe the reference to "experience" was directed at the need to view this level of adventure in the proper perspective. It's a whole new game and the margin of error gets increasingly more narrow.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  7. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    The evidence first presented suggests that you have very little canyoneering experience. Your answers to subsequent questions confirm this assumption. Although that might just be a lack of experience with snarky Interweb forums. Or you might just be a troll, hard to tell. But your original question is essentially un-answerable, mostly because your question is so vague, and we need to know a lot more about you before anyone can responsibly answer your questions.

    But if you are looking for long rappels, here is a good place to start, though I think most of the long rappel action is around to the right, where one does not need to touch the rock much...

    Yosemite_El_Capitan.
    Kuenn likes this.
  8. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    The fact that you are new to the forum (ie not many posts) and the general tone of your post make you sound like a newb rushing forward trying to find the biggest baddest thing out there. If that's not the case fine, but when talking to strangers on a forum its better to assume less experience and be wrong than to assume too much and get someone hurt/killed.
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  9. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    I'm just trying to get the lay of the land...

    Didn't know I'd run into so many crusty veterans. Sorry I even asked...
  10. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    If you're looking at a recommendation for buying a rope, 90m is gonna cover most of the stuff over 60m, if you really want to cover you're bases though a 360' will knock out pretty much everything else. Of course no matter what length rope you buy there will always be something longer out there, but over 360' you'll end up buying a rope for maybe one rappel.
  11. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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  12. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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  13. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    I'm mainly interested in what the general community has. Sure I like big rapells, but I also enjoy alot of technical canyons with short rapells.


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  14. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Come on down to Freeze Fest then, and make some friends. Anyone foolish enough to show up is automatically invited!

    The best way to increase the "tools in your toolbox" is to canyoneer with a variety of people that know what they are doing. Nothing like FF to make that happen.

    And specific to your question: people usually only purchase ropes longer than 200 feet (60m) after they have a few years of canyoneering experience, and AFTER they have done a couple 90m raps under the guidance of someone with 90m experience and who has a 90m rope. Buying a 90m rope, enrolling some beginner friends and heading off to Engelstead has proven an unreliable path to long rappel proficiency. (see above. There are more examples of similar incidents in Engelstead, but very few resulting in death).

    Tom
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  15. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    Wow. I had no clue there was such a large risk with long rapells. Since I am a gear head I rap on an ATS, and I always have a third hand so even on my 60m I had no idea it would be an issue.

    I am glad I asked this question, because I can see myself getting into trouble with climber friends... I'm kind of glad y'all are crusty. ;)

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  16. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    ATS? So, if you're going to continue to pursue looooong rappels, you might want to up the ante on your descending hardware!
    (Especially for El Cap...maybe you daisy-chain 3 ATSs together. :woot:)

    You'll find some helpful reading here:
  17. madman_lee

    madman_lee

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    I thought the ats was a good choice. Guess I need to do my homework.
  18. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    Hi madman. Welcome!
    I am the inventor of the CRITR2 rappel device.
    Bluu (on this forum) is the inventor of the SQWUREL.
    Both rappel devices offer significant advantages when rappelling in canyons and enjoy widespread use among canyoneers.
    I am a crusty old climber type turned canyoneer and had a couple of close calls with long drops on ATCs including a
    near-death experience on the first drop in Englestead.
    I wouldn't bother with the climbing forums for your rappelling homework:
    you are in the right place
    Best
    Todd
    :D
    While Ratagonia can put the "crust" in crusty, he is a climbing and canyoneering guide and gear-creation legend...
    check out his website http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  19. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Thanks Todd. However, I have NEVER guided climbing. I was, however, a crusty old climber type, who thought I knew how to do all those rope things. Climbed El Cap twice. Climbed most of Denali. Redpointed 11d (once). Then I started canyoneering and discovered climbers basically know nothing about rapping etc. Climbers, even engineer types like me, learn the minimum required to ascend cliffs and maybe safely get down. In contrast, ropework is an important part of the CRAFT of canyoneering.

    I always refer back to the unofficial motto of the AMGA: "We've upped our standards, so up yours!"

    Tom
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017