Thoughts on Boundary and Pine Creek

I read through general discussions about winter descents of Pine Creek and Boundary (I count right now as still winter up there, per Tom's posts).

Has anyone here gone through either canyon already this year? I have a trip planned with a friend next weekend and we are deciding what to do. I reserved a permit for Pine Creek, but need to talk to the group about their plans for cold protection. I have two wetsuits that I double up to give me 8/6/5 neoprene insulation. I am debating renting a dry suit from ZAC to wear over the top of the thicker of the two wetsuits as an alternative.

Specifically regarding Boundary, I called the water district and they are not releasing currently. However there will be dam overflow and contributions to Kolob creek from the normal watershed. Does anyone have an idea about whether Boundary would be safe to run with it meeting up with Kolob creek for a spell? I've done it once before but it was a dry year.

Pine Creek has been descended this year, flows have been fluctuating from dangerously high to manageable. The thick wetsuit combo should be fine for Pine, drysuit is always nice.

Boundary, Im sure no one has been in there. You may already know all this but, just getting to the head would be a journey. Kolob Terrace Road is not being plowed past Maloney Hill (Wildcat TH), though I don't how how far you can get past that point currently in a wheeled vehicle. Lava Point Road (access to MIA roads) is closed to vehicles. Many of the cabins on the Kolob Mountain got so much snow you could just step onto the roof, there will still be a bunch of snow! On a warm day, my guess would be that the Boundary would be very class C, not to mention full of ice/snow blockages that could completely block a canyoneer. Exiting Kolob Creek could be extremely high flow and the MIA could have similar snow challenges. All that being said... I don't know exactly what it would look like to get to and out of Boundary, but if it were me, I'd go armed for war/wouldn't go.

Even when the road does open up, I would makes sure you have some good Class C experience when heading into Boundary until at least mid-summer this year. The last time I ran Boundary was in a higher snowmelt year (June 2019) and the flow was fairly significant in the canyon proper. There are certainly a couple of hydraulics to be careful of in there with a lot of flow.

I wouldn't wear a wetsuit under a drysuit...kinda defeats the purpose. But, yeah, I'd rent a drysuit. Warm fleece under. Dunno if Pine Creek would be manageable. Especially if you have to talk to your group about plans for cold protection. I'd skip it if everyone wasn't ready for cold, high flow (and have experience with it).

Ditto Boundary. I've done Boundary in March (dry ground on Lava Point) and some of the Oak Creek forks in April in dry years. There's still significant snowpack that's melting in the high country above so...and, given the flows in the only gage nearby (NF of the Virgin near Springdale) being well above average, I wouldn't descend Boundary either. Kolob tightens up enough on the way to the exit up the MIA and who knows what kinda trouble is brewing in there. We had some scary snowpack in there in April on a low snow year and if that's worse now...could be really really sketchy.

Part of the problem is...its not winter. Winter might lock up the snowpack. Its warmer and melting out. Runoff season. And, with record snowpack (over 300% of normal!), I wouldn't expect conditions in the backcountry above Zion to be "normal" at all this season.

Give it a pass.

Current snowpack:

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice. We are definitely skipping Boundary. Will consider doing Das Boot instead, or possibly telephone if it is accessible. Pine Creek we will check conditions as it gets closer. Myself and one other in the group are fairly experienced and can handle cold and water, the third guy in the group is very experienced with rappelling, but not canyon specific and doesn't handle water well.

The Subway is closed. Das Boot is closed. Telephone will be Class C and very cold. Sounds like you are bringing a beginner, and it would be unfortunate to lose him in his first canyon. Zion is not the place for beginners for the next two months. North Wash, Virgin River Gorge, Snow Canyon State Park, Escalante - all much more appropriate places to canyoneer this spring.

We can explain it to you over and over, but we cannot hear it for you. Zion is in flood stage.

Tom

Thank you for your input, Tom! I appreciate your comments on this as well.

Not sure I'd care to try and cross the Virgin River right now:



Just broke the record for this time of year:



I think the Virgin at Littlefield just broke the daily record as well:



I think the East Fork of the Virgin just broke the record too. Wow!

Good times...

I dunno. I've actually done this once, not in a canyon though. I went surfing in the Pacific late in the year with that combination. It worked pretty well. I was definitely plenty warm. The dry suit ended up leaking a bit when I kept getting tumbled so there was some water on the inside but it certainly wasn't flushing like a wet suit would have. I wouldn't say it's a terrible idea to do. You can wear whatever you wantunder a dry suit.

Dry suit canyoneering always seems really sketchy to me though. You really have to select your canyons carefully to do that. Black Hole on New Years Day? Sure. Pine Creek? No problem. Shenanigans? Bad idea. Anything in Glen Canyon? Terrible idea. The problem is that not only do you have to wear a dry suit, but you have to wear a completely separate something on the outside to protect it, much more so than a wetsuit. Now you can barely move.

A wetsuit is a disposable item and still works fine with a few holes in it. A dry suit is super expensive and doesn't work at all with just one small hole in it. And a rented drysuit? No way.

With Snotel still reading 89" at Kolob station, I can't imagine that not only access, but also dangerous snow and water conditions in Boundary for 2 months still.