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Tech Tip: Answered The RIGHT way to do most anything...

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by ratagonia, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    interesting article:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/resc...ui-mccurley?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST

    Not exactly canyoneering, but it sure seems applicable...

    Loui McCurley
    Author, Speaker, Executive at Pigeon Mountain Industries, Inc

    Follow
    Rescue Professional or Rescue Nazi?
    May 29, 2016

    A couple of years ago, at the International Technical Rescue Symposium (www.itrsonline.org) a highly respected individual in the technical rescue world did one of the most respectable things a man can do. He stood up and said something along the lines of "for all of you who have taken my rescue classes over the years, I just want to say... I'm sorry! I've recently done some new testing, and some of the stuff I've been teaching as absolute for the last 20 years... really isn't!"

    ITRS participants have long had a term for people who prescribe technical rescue tools and equipment like a mathematical formula: Rescue Nazi. While having personal preferences is certainly not bad - in fact any rescue professional/paraprofessional is entitled to (indeed, should!) have them - experience teaches that an ‘absolute’ approach to rigging and technical theory is something that softens over time.

    How open minded are you as a rescuer? Answer each of the following questions with a simple “yes/agree” or “no/disagree”:

    1. Rescue should only be done with a 12.5mm rope.
    2. Fire Departments have no business doing Technical Rescue.
    3. Mountain Rescuers have no clue what they are doing when it comes to Technical Rescue.
    4. Employers can’t effectively train and staff an in house Technical Rescue Team.
    5. Tandem Prusiks are the only reliable way to belay a load.
    6. Every rope rescue system must incorporate a belay.
    7. Anyone descending or lowering a rope should be required to use auto-locking braking devices (descenders)
    8. Never, ever, ever step on a life safety rope!
    9. Rope Rescue System Safety Factors should never dip below 10:1
    10. A dorsal attachment point is the best solution for fall arrest.
    11. Life safety / rescue equipment should be retired after 3 years use.
    12. A belay must pass the “whistle test” to be effective.
    Now, score one point for every question that you answered “yes” to. How many points did you score?

    (There's more at: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/resc...ui-mccurley?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST )
  2. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    Location:
    Woodland Hills, UT
    2. As long as they have the proper training it doesn't matter who they are or where they come from
    3. See above
    8. Um I try to avoid it, but I step on my rap ropes in canyon from time to time, isn't that a life safety rope?

    I don't know enough about technical rescue to answer on any of the others.
  3. hobo_climber

    hobo_climber

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    Location:
    New Zealand
    zero. "IT DEPENDS"

    A rescuer or anyone involved in technical, rope, cave, canyon etc rescue should always keep an open mind, be flexible and never get caught "in the box"

    Every single rescue & exercise I have been involved with I have learnt something new that has challenged my thinking about everything else I do.

    We should be constantly learning & evolving techniques to suit the ever changing world we explore.
  4. Preston Gable

    Preston Gable

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    I get a Zero as well

    Rescue should only be done with a 12.5mm rope.
    It depends, the people doing the hauling need to understand what mechanical advantage they are using. 5 guys hauling on a 3:1 on a sharp edge will cut any rope. Or tear someone apart if they are stuck (we do confined space and bin rescue).

    Fire Departments have no business doing Technical Rescue.
    The volunteer department that I'm on does technical rescue, we also provide it as mutual aid for quite a few smaller departments

    Mountain Rescuers have no clue what they are doing when it comes to Technical Rescue.
    Quite possibly, but maybe they have had more training than they are given credit for

    Employers can’t effectively train and staff an in house Technical Rescue Team.
    Some can some can't. I'm a fan of bringing in a professional to at least provide initial training.

    Tandem Prusiks are the only reliable way to belay a load.
    Hell no, but thats how its usually done

    Every rope rescue system must incorporate a belay.
    Yes, whenever possible.

    Anyone descending or lowering a rope should be required to use auto-locking braking devices (descenders)
    Isn't that the point of a belay?

    Never, ever, ever step on a life safety rope!
    If it's so fragile that stepping on it could hurt it then you need a different rope. Avoid if possible but I hate when people get butt hurt over it.

    Rope Rescue System Safety Factors should never dip below 10:1
    Good luck with that in practice

    A dorsal attachment point is the best solution for fall arrest.
    It depends on the situation, most of the time yes, many times no

    Life safety / rescue equipment should be retired after 3 years use.
    Because steel carabiners have a shelf life... I can see some justification with rope and webbing, but our stuff is stored in a climate controlled environment seeing the light of day maybe 20 hours a year. Also show me someone that can afford to.

    A belay must pass the “whistle test” to be effective.
    Some sort of a verbal test yes, no matter the test it doesn't mean that they don't get distracted 30 seconds later
  5. CRNPRES

    CRNPRES

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    The SAR world is moving towards double mainline vs main and belay. A lot have already switched over and there are a lot of advantages to a two main line system. Not sure if Tom counts two mains as a belay in his very vague statements.

    Everything else I put about the same
  6. Preston Gable

    Preston Gable

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    Interesting, I'm not at all familiar with using a double mainline system. I'm just a grunt doing what the instructors teach us but now you have me curious. My brief google search yielded nothing but the standard RPM and belay setup, have any good sources?

    EDIT
    More googling yielded this, very interesting next time we have a refresher I'll ambush the instructor.

    http://www.firerescuemagazine.com/a...r-0/two-tensioned-rope-systems-for-belay.html

    "in 10% of the tests, the belay system allowed a disturbing amount of travel"
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  7. CRNPRES

    CRNPRES

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    We utilize theses:

    http://www.cmcrescue.com/equipment/mpd/

    Main con is cost to change over ($800 each and you need 2 min) You can use them to create a high line system as well. They become pulleys in a haul system similar to a rescue version of a grigri
  8. Preston Gable

    Preston Gable

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    Ah those are pretty neat, borderline idiot proof compared to the RPM. Reading about the double tensioned system makes a lot more sense. Gives you true redundancy and a lot more confidence with your belay system (he can't be sleeping). However I don't foresee us upgrading anytime soon, we've bought to many new toys lately and are saving our pennies.
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