Tech Tip: Answered The FiddleStick - an advanced anchor tool for canyoneering

A sad state of affairs that someone who screws something up themselves would sue the manufacturer, but I am sure it no doubt happens. But couldn't this be an argument for anyone who sells anything that may increase risk? Can someone sue rope manufacturers for selling 8mm line because it increases risk? What if they advertise that it is super lightweight and much more convenient to pack into places like Heaps with a big long rap?

As a non business owner myself I obviously look at things different than those of you selling your wares, but it drives me crazy when people blame others (manufacturer's, NPS, beta-providers) when they screw up.

I think it's worth remembering that stuff like this is readily available for purchase. Let's not be too hard on the manufacturers.

Here is the thread when I tested various knots using the smooth operator. Worth posting again, as I would be very interested in hearing about what others have tested and found.

Dun' complainin.
Working the problem.
Any ideas presented here are purely experimental, extremely dangerous, professional use only, blah, blah...
For me, a SUMI-stick (blame Boot-boy) when weighted should require a MIMIMUM force of 400 lbs to pull accidentally.
That would rule out most random acts of nature (ravens in nesting mode, mistaken firemans belays, etc.)
That, while maintaining a maximum pull of around 60 lbs when unweighted (deliberate release).
Have noted that when releasing, sticks 'tip up' at an angle as they pull.
A weighted stick resists this 'tip up' making it harder to pull (which is good!)
Changing the shape of the stick might make it extremely hard to pull when weighted, but not (much?) harder to pull when un-weighted.
Has anyone tried a "FIZZLER" (twisted fiddlestick) ?
Guessing about one half to one full twist over the full span of the stick.

So...

People who don't use it have theorized a "problem".

People who HAVE used it don't seem to be concerned about this "problem".

I am very open to the idea of Rapterman putting lots of time and effort into researching the Super-Fizzle-Stick. Perhaps via Bluetooth, one could have safety serrations that withdraw via your iPhone? In fact, really, perhaps an iPhone would make a good Super-Fizzle-Stick!

etc. etc. etc. Obviously a market opportunity for someone.

Tom

The reliability of the iPhone is certainly a problem!
We all know there is not much (any?) reward in marketing 'sticks.
Kudos to you and Luke for making them available...
How do you view fiddling on big drops (other than use of a mantra)?

When I did my test with a well-used 8.3 mm rope, it was nowhere near this... between 12.5 and 15 15 pounds force when un-weighted to release it. It seemed a good amount of force to me. This was after having weighted it with my body weight (about 160-165 ??)

I think Big Drops are, in general, safer; assuming use of an ultra-light pull cord.

1. The (rappelling) rope weight is larger, making premature release less likely.

2. Big Drops tend to be continuous and largely overhanging. Smoother rappelling. Thus the weight at the anchor tends to be very consistent.

Tom

First Frissal Stick : 40 lbs to release (with no weight on rope after heavy tensioning)
160 lbs to release with 100 lb. weight on rappel rope... (a little ways to get to that 400 lb minimum safe zone)

what will they think of next ???

Bump

Andy...he is sketchy...yes?

Ha ha... yes, way sketchy. Entertainment. Infotainment at most.

"(someone) who incidentally attempted a toggle rappel at Cassidy arch using his backpacking spoon. The spoon folded but somehow the the stone knot held and he was able to retrieve the folded backpack spoon, along with his rope. The spoon looks like it was in a scene from the "Matrix" warped and folded, but he keeps it as a memento. I'd rather see (someone) use a fiddlestick for a spoon than a spoon for fiddlestick."

Don't do this...

"Someone" is getting a fiddlestick for Christmas and we're all very excited about it!

Be sure to get the "Cassy's Spoon" version that @ratagonia still stocks (?)

Crazy to think this is only a 9 year old tool. Used it four times in my last canyon. Still think putting any kind of sling/string on it is a bad idea though. Just one more thing to get tangled up or break. I do like the spoon idea though. Could save weight when backpacking.

I am unclear on how you would use it without "... putting any kind of sling/string on it..."

Tom

Clip the biner directly into a hole in the toggle. Attach biner to pull cord/rope used to pull retrieve it. The string provides no additional benefit.