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The Breaking Machine

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Canyon Monkey, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Canyon Monkey

    Canyon Monkey Useful Idiot

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    We just finished making this beast. Let us know what you would like to see tested and we will post the results.

  2. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    How about bustin' some double-euro death knots?
    :woot:
  3. Canyon Monkey

    Canyon Monkey Useful Idiot

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    Will do. We are in the process of making a tensionless hitch out of a 4" pipe for it as well.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  4. CRNPRES

    CRNPRES

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    Can you pull on a clove on a carabiner?
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  5. Canyon Monkey

    Canyon Monkey Useful Idiot

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    Will do.
  6. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    New stuff vs old stuff
  7. qcard

    qcard

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    I read somewhere that placing a single steel link of chain between the opposing strands of an EDK and the bend itself reduced rolling and the percentage strength lost when loaded. If you’re going to test EDKs, I’d be interested to know the difference in performance a steel link placed in that location could make.


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  8. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    What do you mean by "performance"?
  9. qcard

    qcard

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    With the premise that (a) an EDK can reduce the strength of a rope by as much as 40-50% at the knot; and (b) the possibility that an EDK might roll some when the rope is loaded (e.g., on rappel) as separate potential risk factors... I’m wondering whether threading the opposing strands through a link before tying the EDK (or a double EDK) appreciably reduces any strength loss or risk of rolling. I can only assume any difference would be due to the changed angle at which the EDK is loaded and pulled apart. In other words, I’m curious how two ropes joined with an EDK perform with the link vs. without the link. Hopefully that’s clearer.


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  10. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  11. Canyon Monkey

    Canyon Monkey Useful Idiot

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  12. Jenny

    Jenny

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  13. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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  14. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    A couple of suggestions (we break test a lot of stuff)
    What ever connectors you thread test web or rope through should be highly polished,
    otherwise rough spots on the rings or shackles can cause early failure at those points.
    I mention this because it appears that most of your samples are breaking at the rings instead of at the knots

    Also we like tests to replicate actual use- otherwise the results are not as meaningful as they could be.
    Example: doing a LOOP test with the EDK is not as useful because the EDK is not used to tie loops.
    Most tests of the EDK use a single strand end to end.
    Also loop tests of canyoneering or climbing ropes- unless you are slinging chocks with them the tests do not
    tell you much cause the values are much higher than they would be in a 'real world' (single strand) application.
    :)
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  15. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    But perhaps they are capable of dividing by two.

    Tom
  16. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    Kind of...
    If the end rings were 'frictionless' this would be so but we have found that as the knot on one side constricts
    the web/rope on the opposite side can carry a higher percentage of the load.
    When comparing loop tests to single strand we have found that the single strand is more 'honest':
    loop values end up being MORE than twice the single strand value.
    This is fine for loop testing things like webbing slings that are rigged as loops in normal use but I do not
    trust values when it is used for rope as the surface friction can vary so much depending on the condition of the sheath.
  17. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    But it is difficult to make fixtures for getting close to 100% out of single strand.

    Tom
  18. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    So TRUE!
    We usually just use a knot or hitch to the eyebolts of the test rig for the ends of the sample that we expect to be stronger than the knot we
    are testing (in the center of the sample).
    The termination knots are usually (but not always!) stronger since they are 'basketed' around the eyebolts.
    The UIAA test for rappel/belay devices shows a termination hitch for test rope which is pretty efficient.....
    or Bootboy can help us out here
    :)

    If just testing raw rope or web with NO knots then that is a different story..
    a proper lab clamp to meet ASTM is a PROJECT
    Any body got a spec?
  19. Canyon Monkey

    Canyon Monkey Useful Idiot

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    Unlikely :)
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