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Summer's coming! Heaps and Imlay...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ratagonia, May 12, 2019.

  1. zul

    zul

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    I have done Imlay sneak in a day at mid-water, 4 hooking pools. I like the idea of 'Required: Obtain your permit the day prior and start at dawn'. This might help readers understand that this is no stroll. Some group leaders might not realize that there just isn't enough daylight come Oct (for most groups). Late start, not going to cut it.

    Heaps: Haven't done it yet. For me, I am flip flopping on: Dawn start (day trip) OR the over-nighter schlepping all the gear. A question that I've been pondering for a long time. Current thought: Full pools = dawn daytrip OR Low pools = overnighter. Thoughts / suggestions?

    After all these years I understand why these canyons were not detailed in the 1st addition.

    Good thread!
  2. Alex Temus

    Alex Temus

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    Thread-Derailing Question:

    I've done Heaps & Imlay both. Also Subway, Lower Refrigerator, Pine Creek, & Spry in Zion. Most of my canyons have been in other parts of Utah. I see around 30 canyons in Zion detailed on various websites, but I see maybe 100 when I look at topo maps of the park (and when I hiked observation point! So many canyons!!!)

    So I'm assuming this Zion2 book will detail at least a few dozen canyons? How many are your planning to publish there? And when are you hoping to have it hit the shelves?
  3. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I was hoping to have it hit the shelf for July 4th, but...

    There will be a few more canyons in the new book, but not many.

    You know how everywhere in the USA you can find a McD's, a Pizza Hut, a 7-11, etc. I consider the homogenization of America as a loss, a loss of local color and discovery. I feel much the same about canyons. There are plenty of beta'd canyons, but it is also good to have plenty of un-beta'd canyons. The experience is different. Just like there seem to be plenty of canyons in Zion that have bolts for every anchor... it is good to also have canyons in Zion that require actual thinking.

    Tom
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  4. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    I'd suggest an overnight. You can go pretty light for an overnighter (and should).

    “Remember: if you take bivouac equipment along, you will bivouac...”
    — Yvon Chouinard

    That said, you could plan for a bivy, leave out most stuff but be able to suffer through the night, and finish the next day if need be, but, do in a day if you find yourself and conditions in good nick. Pull up short and camp rather than doing the final exit in the dark, for example. Better to have some time margin in your schedule than have folks unnecessarily worry about you not making the dinner bell at Oscars.

    Pre-dawn start either way.
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  5. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    You're too funny.

    Even with a guidebook available, folks have a choice, just like choosing a quick mickey d's v a kale smoothie.

    Give the folks what they want: beta, beta and more beta. They can choose to use the book, memorize, photo copy, leave on the shelf or leave at home.

    Put the choice in the peoples' hands. Power to the people.

    The void will be filled either way. Might as well be filled by YOU.
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  6. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    Except that just like a McD popping up in Springdale, you might have the choice between a Big Mac and a kale smoothie, but the feel of the town changes after a while. Same thing once beta comes out on a canyon.

    There is a trade off, if you start too early and are tired you move slower later in the day so you don't want to start too early either, I prefer starting around 4:30-5am. One thing that I always stress in my groups (but someone always messes it up) is get everything ready the night before and I do mean EVERYTHING. Have your pack loaded 100% so there's no last minute rearrangement and have something simple for breakfast ie something that can be eaten cold, or just needs to be reheated for a minute or two on a skillet. Basically you want to be ready to hike within 15-20 min from the time you wake up so that you maximize your sleep the night before. The pack one is usually what gets people, they always tell me that they have everything packed, just need to throw one or two things in that morning. It NEVER works, either they can't find it in the dark or they think they buried something in the bottom of the pack that they need and have to pull everything out and repack it. If there's something in your pack that you'll need in the morning, bring two just make sure that the pack is loaded the night before and that you don't need to get into it in the morning.

    As for day vs overnight this is just my personal opinion, but I've never done a two day through Heaps and will never plan a two day through Heaps. If you're worried take some minimal bivy gear so that you can survive a night in canyon, but don't plan on luxury camping. Others actually prefer to plan for a two day trip and take it slow and easy, so that's more a personal choice.
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  7. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    "The feel"...of things. That'll vary a bunch person to person and can be managed at a personal level. There's also different levels of beta. My guess is for the majority of folks out there, they'd prefer to either know more, or, be able to access more if their mood desires. For instance, I could glance over beta for Mystery, but, my guess is I could get away with no beta at all besides knowing wet/cold or dry, and, the longest piece of rope I'd need. Other folks might want step-by-step paint-by-numbers style beta. And, that's ok. It doesn't really diminish my experience either way if other folks need or don't need more or less beta.

    Would folks benefit by a lack of beta by learning to become more self sufficient? Sure. But, should a guidebook direct that effort? I don't think that's the place. It can be purposely vague, but, then it'll just suck and that void will get filled by someone else.

    Adopting European-esque canyon topo's would be sweet:

    Sa Fosca.JPG

    But, I get what you mean especially about the feel of a town changing...that Subway in Springdale totally ruined the place for me (ha ha).

    I think most folks can't start too early. Some folks don't sleep well the night prior to a trip anyhow. I try to make sure I get some solid sleep in the few days prior to a bigger trip. That way, low sleep won't be as much of a factor.

    As far as rolling out of bed and hitting the trail: spot on. I brew coffee and carry in a thermos for the morning of trip launch (even cold, winter gigs). Pre-packing the kit is super helpful. Amazing what a time suck that can be. And add additional people...and faffing...

    Good advice!
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  8. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Readily acknowledging a lack of reading comprehension, I was a bit confused by the two statements in red.

    The intro is great information and warning to all, especially the overconfident! Helps provide that extra (needed) motivation to layoff the cookies and put in more PT for upcoming trips (self X2).
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  9. Luzyfuerza

    Luzyfuerza

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    Tom, two suggestions:

    1) Note that both Imlay and Heaps have large drainage areas with lots of slickrock. And the dark sections of these canyons have very limited areas to shelter from a flash flood. This makes them an especially bad idea on days when thunderstorms are at all likely.

    2) The first time I did Heaps, we had a mirror group that did Imlay. Turned out that was the first descent of Imlay for the year. One of the members of that Imlay group found some existing webbing wrapped around a log at the top of a drop and without really thinking, rigged to it. When he weighted the webbing on rappel, it failed, and he fell backward 30' into a pool. It might make sense to remind your readers that Imlay and Heaps can both go for long periods without any visitors, and also get plenty of floods that can damage both anchor points and webbing. So, all anchors should be inspected before they are trusted.
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