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Sand Trap

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by Ericgodfrey, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. Ericgodfrey

    Ericgodfrey Guest

    I was able to get out on a 10 day trip this month including 7 days on Lake Powell doing explorations and barely betad canyons. On this trip I was able to use the sandtrap for the first time. After being shown how to set it up I had some of the others watch me set it up once or twice to make sure I didn't miss anything. After this I felt confident setting it up by myself wherever we felt the geometry was favorable. It is very quick and easy to use.

    It doesn't work at every drop but is useful in so many more spots than any other ghosting technique I've used in the past. The least favorable place to use one is a chockstone choked constriction as the trap can get tangled in the rocks, however these are generally the easiest places to throw a sling around one of those chockstones. Places where you would normally need to build a deadman or carin anchor (anchors that usually take the most time to build) is usually an ideal spot to use it, saving HUGE amounts of time. One canyon we did had 9 rappels, all of them off the sandtrap. We would have been in the canyon twice as long if we were building anchors at all these drops.

    The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations (don't get too carried away trying to leave no trace or you will get it stuck). Always back it up until the last person and make sure you don't accidentaly pull on the pull cord on rappel (that would dump the sand and be very bad).
  2. Luke Galyan

    Luke Galyan Guest

    I've been hearing bits and peices of this sand trap. I would very much like to see it in action. Anyone interested in doing a canyon where they can show it off a bit?

    Luke

    Ericgodfrey ericgodfrey@gmail.com> wrote:

    >I was able to get out on a 10 day trip this month including 7 days on Lake Powell doing explorations and barely betad canyons. On this trip I was able to use the sandtrap for the first time. After being shown how to set it up I had some of the others watch me set it up once or twice to make sure I didn't miss anything. After this I felt confident setting it up by myself wherever we felt the geometry was favorable. It is very quick and easy to use.
    It doesn't work at every drop but is useful in so many more spots than any other ghosting technique I've used in the past. The least favorable place to use one is a chockstone choked constriction as the trap can get tangled in the rocks, however these are generally the easiest places to throw a sling around one of those chockstones. Places where you would normally need to build a deadman or carin anchor (anchors that usually take the most time to build) is usually an ideal spot to use it, saving HUGE amounts of time. One canyon we did had 9 rappels, all of them off the sandtrap. We would have been in the canyon twice as long if we were building anchors at all these drops.
    The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations (don't get too carried away trying to leave no trace or you will get it stuck). Always back it up until the last person and make sure you don't accidentaly pull on the pull cord on rappel (that would dump the sand and be very bad). >
  3. This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so we can all benefit.

    -steve http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/





    ________________________________ From: Luke Galyan luke@bluugnome.com> To: Yahoo Canyons Group Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 2:33:54 PM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    I've been hearing bits and peices of this sand trap. I would very much like to see it in action. Anyone interested in doing a canyon where they can show it off a bit?

    Luke

    Ericgodfrey ericgodfrey@gmail.com> wrote:

    >I was able to get out on a 10 day trip this month including 7 days on Lake Powell doing explorations and barely betad canyons. On this trip I was able to use the sandtrap for the first time. After being shown how to set it up I had some of the others watch me set it up once or twice to make sure I didn't miss anything. After this I felt confident setting it up by myself wherever we felt the geometry was favorable. It is very quick and easy to use.
    It doesn't work at every drop but is useful in so many more spots than any other ghosting technique I've used in the past. The least favorable place to use one is a chockstone choked constriction as the trap can get tangled in the rocks, however these are generally the easiest places to throw a sling around one of those chockstones. Places where you would normally need to build a deadman or carin anchor (anchors that usually take the most time to build) is usually an ideal spot to use it, saving HUGE amounts of time. One canyon we did had 9 rappels, all of them off the sandtrap. We would have been in the canyon twice as long if we were building anchors at all these drops.
    The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations (don't get too carried away trying to leave no trace or you will get it stuck). Always back it up until the last person and make sure you don't accidentaly pull on the pull cord on rappel (that would dump the sand and be very bad). >





    ---

    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:

    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?

    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

    This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the "Edit My Membership" link, and change your delivery option. Press "Save Changes".



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  4. RAM

    RAM Guest

    Can't seem to download the pictures from the last trip on the new computer. Here is one picture from last November http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16405&cat=0&page=1

    On the rap side is 4 loops, coming from the corners that are connected by biner and rapped off of (with a testing back up). On the top, in the picture is the pull sling. A 2nd rope or another part of the rap rope is attached here by biner and pulled after the raps. The pull over the top, rolls the top part forward and the sand falls out the sides and voila, it empties and comes down with the pull. Amazing how well it works. And BDC! Yoohoo BDC....it essentially eliminates all the places that deadman and cairn anchors are used. You know, those unnatural natural anchors of perhaps soon to be days of yore? With this method, 10 to 40 pounds of sand migrates from the top of a drop to the bottom....unless you had to farm it from the bottom in the first place. Result is.....very fast to do. Follow protocol and safe to do. No farming and dragging rocks and leaving monuments to one's passage. Nothing left behind but foot prints. I used to go through a spool of webbing fairly often. Now? The spool may last years. We left exactly 6 pieces of webbing, in 14 days, in 15 canyons while rapping approximately 100+ times. We continue to introduce it to group after of group of skeptics and make converts of them all. The Bucky's, Brendan's, Godfrey's, Spidey's et al will convince folks. Not the old radicals like Tom and I. Another picture found http://picasaweb.google.com/aramv14/November2009#5405910240877909714 Ram

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, steve mestdagh <s_mestdagh@...> wrote:
    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so we can all benefit.
    -steve > http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/


    > ________________________________ > From: Luke Galyan <luke@...
    To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 2:33:54 PM > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    I've been hearing bits and peices of this sand trap. I would very much like to see it in action. Anyone interested in doing a canyon where they can show it off a bit?
    Luke
    Ericgodfrey <ericgodfrey@...> wrote:
    >I was able to get out on a 10 day trip this month including 7 days on Lake Powell doing explorations and barely betad canyons. On this trip I was able to use the sandtrap for the first time. After being shown how to set it up I had some of the others watch me set it up once or twice to make sure I didn't miss anything. After this I felt confident setting it up by myself wherever we felt the geometry was favorable. It is very quick and easy to use.

    It doesn't work at every drop but is useful in so many more spots than any other ghosting technique I've used in the past. The least favorable place to use one is a chockstone choked constriction as the trap can get tangled in the rocks, however these are generally the easiest places to throw a sling around one of those chockstones. Places where you would normally need to build a deadman or carin anchor (anchors that usually take the most time to build) is usually an ideal spot to use it, saving HUGE amounts of time. One canyon we did had 9 rappels, all of them off the sandtrap. We would have been in the canyon twice as long if we were building anchors at all these drops.

    The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations (don't get too carried away trying to leave no trace or you will get it stuck). Always back it up until the last person and make sure you don't accidentaly pull on the pull cord on rappel (that would dump the sand and be very bad).

    >

    ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links


    > >
  5. tj_wetherell

    tj_wetherell Guest

  6. RAM

    RAM Guest

  7. Eric Godfrey

    Eric Godfrey Guest

    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to read the boxes.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink

    On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-72157622673362937/
    > Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell" > <tj_wetherell@...> wrote:



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve > mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:


    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so > we can all benefit.

    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/

    > -tom(w)

    >
  8. Thanks Eric, Ram and TomW! Eric's annotated shot below really helps make it clear. Mr. Jones - you need to start cranking these out! I have to say they're a bit pricey though.

    -steve http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/





    ________________________________ From: Eric Godfrey ericgodfrey@gmail.com> To: Yahoo Canyons Group Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:03:03 PM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to read the boxes.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
  9. RAM

    RAM Guest

    Thanks Eric...That's great. This picture is of a high angle placement. When they are higher angle or are steeper below the trap, making it hard to keep in place, then they can be anchored from the down canyon side off of someone who has gone off as meat.

    Flatter placements require more sand, that's all. Also the pad can be left out flat....not folded over at all. This requires more sand. Its utility is it can be placed waaaay back at a flat place, if the places near the drop don't work as well at a given time. Pulling the emptied sandtrap through potholes, thru water, over steep or overhanging lips is no problem at all. What causes problems and sends out warning lights is constrictions with chockstones or places too tight to allow sand to spill out. When the trap is left out flat, we create a trough in the center of the trap parallel to downcanyon to help the sand fall off. More muscle is required to pull the thing when flat. A tug or two, some sand falls off, then it gets easy again.

    One of the reasons we use the same rope for rap and pull when we can is to preserve rope for this system can commit a lot of your rope to a drop. We haven't lost a trap yet, but you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. We like having 2 traps with us too. Allows more than one anchor to be built at the same time and provides a back up. Great fun! R

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, Eric Godfrey <ericgodfrey@...> wrote:
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@...> wrote:



    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-72157622673362937/

    > Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    <tj_wetherell@> wrote:





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:



    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    we can all benefit.


    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/


    > -tom(w)





    >
  10. RAM

    RAM Guest

    I agree on cranking them out. As for the price.......It has paid for itself already in saved webbing costs, let alone rapides costs too. ;-) R

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, steve mestdagh <s_mestdagh@...> wrote:
    Thanks Eric, Ram and TomW! Eric's annotated shot below really helps make it clear. > Mr. Jones - you need to start cranking these out! I have to say they're a bit pricey though.
    -steve > http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/


    > ________________________________ > From: Eric Godfrey <ericgodfrey@...
    To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:03:03 PM > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink


    >
  11. Good points!

    -steve http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/





    ________________________________ From: RAM adkramoo@aol.com> To: Yahoo Canyons Group Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:39:41 PM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    I agree on cranking them out. As for the price.......It has paid for itself already in saved webbing costs, let alone rapides costs too. ;-) R

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, steve mestdagh <s_mestdagh@...> wrote:
    Thanks Eric, Ram and TomW! Eric's annotated shot below really helps make it clear. > Mr. Jones - you need to start cranking these out! I have to say they're a bit pricey though.
    -steve > http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/


    > ________________________________ > From: Eric Godfrey <ericgodfrey@...
    To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:03:03 PM > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink


    >



    ---

    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:

    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?

    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

    This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save Changes&amp;amp;quot;.



    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
  12. Luke

    Luke Guest

    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are they a make it yourself kind of thing?

    And as to my original question....... Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :) Luke

    -----Original Message----- From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of Eric Godfrey Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to read the boxes.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink

    On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM adkramoo@aol.com> wrote:



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293 7/
    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell" > <tj_wetherell@...> wrote:



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve > mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:


    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so > we can all benefit.

    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/

    > -tom(w)

    >





    ---

    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:

    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?

    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

    This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save Changes&amp;amp;quot;.



    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
  13. RAM

    RAM Guest

    Ping me sideband and we will see what can be worked out. R

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Luke" <luke@...> wrote:
    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are > they a make it yourself kind of thing?
    And as to my original question....... > Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little > hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :) > Luke
    -----Original Message----- > From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of > Eric Godfrey > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@...> wrote:




    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293
    7/

    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    <tj_wetherell@> wrote:





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:



    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    we can all benefit.


    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/


    > -tom(w)







    ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and > searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip > Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; > TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff > for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are > coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press > &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links >
  14. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    Was that meant as a slo pitch?

    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406&cat=269&page=1

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Luke" <luke@...> wrote:
    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are > they a make it yourself kind of thing?
    And as to my original question....... > Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little > hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :) > Luke
    -----Original Message----- > From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of > Eric Godfrey > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@...> wrote:




    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293
    7/

    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    <tj_wetherell@> wrote:





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:



    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    we can all benefit.


    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/


    > -tom(w)







    ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and > searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip > Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; > TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff > for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are > coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press > &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links >
  15. Luke

    Luke Guest

    Guess I didn't look around enough. J Thanks for sending that along!

    You just might have yourself a (back)order here pretty soon.

    Luke







    From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of TomJones Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 10:30 PM To: Yahoo Canyons Group Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap





    Was that meant as a slo pitch?

    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406 <http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406&cat=269&page=1> &cat=269&page=1

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com> , "Luke" <luke@...> wrote:
    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are > they a make it yourself kind of thing?
    And as to my original question....... > Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little > hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :) > Luke
    -----Original Message----- > From: Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of > Eric Godfrey > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM > To: Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@...> wrote:




    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293
    7/

    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com> <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    <tj_wetherell@> wrote:





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <mailto:canyons%40yahoogroups.com> <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:



    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    we can all benefit.


    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/


    > -tom(w)







    ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and > searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip > Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; > TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff > for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are > coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press > &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links >
  16. Dang, Tom! The price went up $20 in one day. Can I get it at the previously advertised price of $80?

    -steve http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/





    ________________________________ From: TomJones ratagonia@gmail.com> To: Yahoo Canyons Group Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 11:30:19 PM Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    Was that meant as a slo pitch?

    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406&cat=269&page=1

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Luke" <luke@...> wrote:
    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are > they a make it yourself kind of thing?
    And as to my original question....... > Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little > hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :) > Luke
    -----Original Message----- > From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of > Eric Godfrey > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM > To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to > read the boxes.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink
    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@...> wrote:




    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293
    7/

    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    <tj_wetherell@> wrote:





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:



    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    we can all benefit.


    Ransom has pics up on flickr:
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/


    > -tom(w)







    ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and > searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip > Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; > TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff > for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are > coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press > &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links >



    ---

    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:

    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?

    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

    This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save Changes&amp;amp;quot;.



    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links
  17. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    People who reserved one way back when, were given a 10$ discount. The reservation cost 10$, plus the 80$ completion = 90$.

    I have to make them myself. The price has to be high enough to convince me to sit down and spend the time at the sewing machine - not an easy task.

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, steve mestdagh <s_mestdagh@...> wrote:
    Dang, Tom! The price went up $20 in one day. Can I get it at the previously advertised price of $80?
    -steve > http://smestdagh.blogspot.com/


    > ________________________________ > From: TomJones <ratagonia@...
    To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 11:30:19 PM > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap
    Was that meant as a slo pitch?
    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406&cat=269&page=1
    > Tom
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Luke" <luke@> wrote:

    Very cool! I like it so far. Are these an item for sale somewhere or are
    they a make it yourself kind of thing?

    And as to my original question.......
    Anyone wanna take me in a canyon and show off that contraption? A little
    hands on and how to talk would be great while actually using it. :)
    Luke

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Yahoo Canyons Group [mailto:Yahoo Canyons Group] On Behalf Of
    Eric Godfrey
    Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:03 PM
    To: Yahoo Canyons Group
    > Subject: Re: [from Canyons Group] Sand Trap

    Here is the photo with a description of what's what. Zoom in to be able to
    read the boxes.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GQOGtKDryFDfHtWAXPND2A?feat=directlink

    > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:15 PM, RAM <adkramoo@> wrote:







    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/4101049115/in/set-7215762267336293
    > 7/


    Thanks Tom. I love this one. The pull system set up and on the side.


    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, "tj_wetherell"
    > <tj_wetherell@> wrote:







    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group <canyons%40yahoogroups.com>, steve
    > mestdagh <s_mestdagh@> wrote:




    This thread is worthless without pics. Let's see this thing please so
    > we can all benefit.



    Ransom has pics up on flickr:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/



    > -tom(w)








    >



    ---

    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and
    searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip
    Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics;
    TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff
    for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are
    coding for us, such as:

    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?

    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/

    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My
    Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press
    &amp;amp;quot;Save
    Changes&amp;amp;quot;.

    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email
    to you each day summarizing that day's messages.

    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you
    must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links


    > ---
    When you post, please change the Subject appropriately, to make reading and searching easier. You can use the following abbreviations: TRIP = Trip Report; BETA = Canyon Beta; PARTNER = Partner and/or Rides; ETHICS = Ethics; TECH = Technical Questions and Tips; BIZ = E Group Business; SALE = Stuff for Sale. Please use a Tilde ~ after the abbreviation, so we know you are coding for us, such as:
    Subject: BIZ~ New Abbreviation List - working?
    To change your delivery options, go to the Canyons Egroup page on yahoo: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/
    > This will require logging into Yahoo. Click on the &amp;amp;quot;Edit My > Membership&amp;amp;quot; link, and change your delivery option. Press &amp;amp;quot;Save > Changes&amp;amp;quot;.
    DAILY DIGEST OPTION will deliver one email > to you each day summarizing that day's messages.
    WEB ONLY OPTION will not deliver email; you > must visit the web site to view messages. Groups Links


    > >
  18. Eric Godfrey

    Eric Godfrey Guest

    Personally, I think $100 is very reasonable. Especially after using the thing.

  19. davewyo1

    davewyo1 Guest

    Hey Ram, Tom, et al! Can you elaborate on Ram's statement below and possibly give some more details on SandTrap uses and techniques you've developed? Particularly why the system uses more rope and how you use the same rope to rap&pull. Also how that conserves rope used. Like traditional single rope systems you need one rope to rappel and one to pull It seems to me that the extra used is because you set the Trap back from the edge and that wouldn't be too much. Right?. Thanks Dave

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "RAM" <adkramoo@...> wrote: > One of the reasons we use the same rope for rap and pull when we can is to preserve rope for this system can commit a lot of your rope to a drop. We haven't lost a trap yet, but you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. We like having 2 traps with us too. Allows more than one anchor to be built at the same time and provides a back up. Great fun! > R
  20. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    Consider the possibility of the SandTrap NOT cleaning, getting stuck. If all your ropes are tied to it, then you no longer have ropes to proceed downcanyon. If this seems like a possibility, then perhaps your rappelling rope should be doubled through the anchor point, and pulled clear before retrieval is attempted. Thus, it becomes a 3X system rather than a 2X system.

    My preference would be to use sand to cover over any obstacles to a clean pull. Not always possible. Obstacles to a clean pull are often also opportunities for other styles of anchors. Over-fascination with the SandTrap and ghosting can lead to using it where other anchors would be more appropriate.

    Be careful out there.

    And to answer the other question - yes, it is essentially a 2X device. I recommend using the ends of ropes (rather than the middle of one rope, strung to both rap point and clean point) because all that sand tends to chew up ropes within 10 feet of the SandTrap - and a rope chewed at the end is a shorter rope - a rope chewed in the middle is two short ropes.

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@...> wrote:
    Hey Ram, Tom, et al! > Can you elaborate on Ram's statement below and possibly give some more details on SandTrap uses and techniques you've developed? > Particularly why the system uses more rope and how you use the same rope to rap&pull. Also how that conserves rope used. > Like traditional single rope systems you need one rope to rappel and one to pull > It seems to me that the extra used is because you set the Trap back from the edge and that wouldn't be too much. Right?. > Thanks > Dave
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "RAM" <adkramoo@> wrote:
    One of the reasons we use the same rope for rap and pull when we can is to preserve rope for this system can commit a lot of your rope to a drop. We haven't lost a trap yet, but you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. We like having 2 traps with us too. Allows more than one anchor to be built at the same time and provides a back up. Great fun!
    R >
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