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Sand Trap difficulties caused by wet sand?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Austin Farnworth, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Austin Farnworth

    Austin Farnworth

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    Location:
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    While descending No Kidding last week I had quite the ordeal trying to get my Sand Trap to release on the third to last rappel. The geometry right at the lip places the Sand Trap into somewhat of a constricting pothole that doesn't allow for the corners to lay flat out. I have set up this rappel without issue on two previous trips and the only notable difference was that in times past the sand was dry, and this time I was using wet sand. We managed to pull the Sand Trap down with a pulley system after much effort and I am curious if others have had issues with wet sand or if this is more about geometry than anything?
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  2. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    I would say its more about geometry, but the wet sand did play a factor in it. I got trap stuck in that same spot only with dry sand.
  3. Austin Farnworth

    Austin Farnworth

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    I may have been the fact that the SandTrap couldn't dump sand out the sides due to the constriction. Maybe placing the trap sideways in that spot would allow the sand to pour out the sides.

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
  4. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    Yeah, for me we spent about 20 minutes, with 3 people yarding on the pull rope bounding up and down, that thing wasn't going anywhere, so I actually had to ascend up and reset the trap so I got to see what went wrong and it's just as you suggested that the sand couldn't empty. I ended up moving the trap completely and putting it right up on the lip of that spot and being very careful to rappel lightly.
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  5. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Perhaps the better solution is to eliminate the problem place by filling it in with sand. Or, one can put the Sand Trap a long way back so it has time to empty before hitting the constriction.

    Wet sand density is approx 3.5, dry sand 2.5 --- but the main thing is that the wet sand tends to be sticky. (in my role as Captain Obvious).

    Tom
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  6. Jason Linder

    Jason Linder

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    Taco or Tostada?
  7. Austin Farnworth

    Austin Farnworth

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    Taco
  8. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    If it is the one I am thinking, that is a nasty nasty spot. We did that one with stacked pot shots the first time. I jugged up to adjust, maybe even twice. Ended up rapping off two handfuls of sand in a potshot. Took two of us on separate ropes to pull it.

    Filling it in with sand works nicely, when there is plenty of sand there. Even using the pothole above does not always work, as the empty trap can get stuck in that slot.

    Tom
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  9. Austin Farnworth

    Austin Farnworth

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    I think we are talking about the same spot, I likely made it much harder for myself by digging out a bunch of sand from the pothole. I was surprised that after ascending and removing a good amount sand that it still took 4 people and a pulley to get the trap down.
  10. Jbancerewicz

    Jbancerewicz Jerzy

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    Location:
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    I descended solo NO KIDDING on April 12 and had problem with sand tarp. After I got out of kipper pothole I was getting ready for 2 stage rappel and set up sand trap ,after I got down I couldn't pull sand tarp dow it was stuck. I decided to leave my gear and used my backpack for the last rappel. The very next day I came back to the canyon to retrieve my gear. Instead of sand tarp I used my canvas rice bags I bought for training of shooting as potshots. They worked really good, got to the spot where my sand trap was stuck! The lip was was having a little curve where everything potentially would get stuck! I even tried my canvas bags but they were also stuck. I put sand trap closer to the edge on open space and it worked perfectly. I finished the canyon without any problems.
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  11. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Solo travel with a SandTrap?
  12. Jbancerewicz

    Jbancerewicz Jerzy

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  13. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Twice

    And you are still alive... presumably that is not what you planned.

    I'm happy about that.

    Tom
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  14. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    A sandtrap is not an anchor, it's a process. That process requires a tester (and that assumes the first test passes.)

    If you've never had a sandtrap "fail" (and your weight go on to the meat back-up) you haven't set enough of them.
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  15. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Four person minimum for responsible use of a SandTrap. Please.

    Plenty of traps require a two- or three-person pull.

    Tom
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  16. Jbancerewicz

    Jbancerewicz Jerzy

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    I did canyon No Kidding before 27 December 2017 on Freezefest I know how sand tarp works . Before rap I checked load. I think Tom you have right sometimes sent trap require two person pull , but this curve was nasty
  17. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    It is not a matter of not being SandTrap experienced. I too can make good guesses on how much to put in the Trap. And I am right about 90% of the time.

    There are a couple spots in NK where the pull is necessarily difficult. And a couple places it can get fully stuck. Even in a straightforward Trapping canyon like No Kidding, I consider it foolish to go with only 2 people (which I have done), and worse to go solo.

    This is a stupid sport. To survive, you need to be smarter than a tarp with sand on it. Please re-evaluate your risk management equation.

    Tom
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  18. Jbancerewicz

    Jbancerewicz Jerzy

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    I think if you go to the canyon like No Kidding where is only retrievable anchor each group should have carry spare sand trap or potshots, because if you have overhang wall and right now don't have tools for ascending your staff is stuck .
    Before I go I know what i'm doing. The problem is that one person have to carry a lot of equipment if you decide go to canyon without partner

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  19. Ram

    Ram

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    [QUOTE="The problem is [/QUOTE]

    The problem is....you are encouraging the use of a safe anchoring tool in an unsafe manner. This is your right. Be reckless, if you wish. It is Alex Honnold's right to free solo.

    It is our responsibility shout from the mountaintop "don't do this." The more "depth of experience" one has with this tool, the more reasons one has to speak out against your practice. May you live long and prosper. And if you don't, may your actions not impact others, either our collective access to these special areas or the health of those who may someday need to find you.
    R
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  20. Jbancerewicz

    Jbancerewicz Jerzy

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    I got your point!! I totally agree with you!! It wasn't my intention to encourage going in to the canyon, any canyon, solo! Part of my dark personality pushed me there ...I shouldn't have listened ...Now I realized that. Damage is done. Sorry! I will erase my post.
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