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Tech Tip: Video retrievable anchor on long rappels

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by levifackrell, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    interesting idea what are your feelings about it and do you have any other ideas
    not my idea i just found it looking around online for anchor ideas
  2. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    this video was tossed around maybe 2-3 years ago, maybe on Bogley??? can't remember where/when, but the idea was never adopted in a widespread manor. Someone will come in with more details, no doubt.
  3. Jolly Green

    Jolly Green

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    I'd only try that with your rope, not mine...
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  4. Sonny Lawrence

    Sonny Lawrence

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    There are a lot of retrievable systems floating around Europe and the USA. Some are quite creative. Some use a fair amount of gear. Knowing at least one of them very well makes for an advanced mountaineer/canyoneer/rock climber. You may need that ability when you are fatigued and scared at 2 in the morning with rain, cold and a flash flood on your heels. I suggest you pick one and use it as much as possible so it becomes almost a reflex. For me, that choice is a Fiddlestick. To date in my hands it is the most reliable.
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  5. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    I'm just kind of new to the sport so I'm trying to learn what I can.sometimes having a bunch of ideas floating in your head allows you to macgyver something when you need it. I like this because You always have a carabiner you just need para cord. (A light piece of gear that can be used in a lot of situations)

    but it's true that you should learn your favorite technique that gets you out of multiple situations and stick with it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  6. Sonny Lawrence

    Sonny Lawrence

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    There is another possibility that requires no extra gear. Some have disagreed with me teaching it. I call it the virtual Fiddlestick. I make 4 or 5 toggles out of loops of the retrieval rope and insert them instead of a physical stick. Hence the name virtual. It definitely is an advanced technique. In some ways I prefer it over the real Fiddlestick.
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  7. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    something like this sonny ( its kind of like a daisy chain technique with webbing )
  8. Sonny Lawrence

    Sonny Lawrence

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
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  9. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    Yeah, I wonder why? To me it seems fiddly, limited in scope and potentially less reliable than other methods. Maybe it's not. I'll probably never know b/c the marlinspike technique is sooooo good.
  10. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    What is the marlinspike technique


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  11. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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  12. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I don't really see that the Occam gains you anything, that cannot also be achieved by just a biner block and ordinary pull-through... except, with a long piece of small cord, you could have pieces of rope tied together on the rappel side. I guess that is the point.

    It does require a wire-gate biner, which are not very popular with canyoneers.

    I don't know why it is called "retrievable", the Occam. The video calls it Releasable, which are different things.

    I think if you take a good look at the FiddleStick, you will find it is quite a good system. A fairly large group worked on it for quite some time to develop it to the point it is now. Seems to work quite well.

    Tom
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
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  13. townsend

    townsend

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    At this point, I am satisfied with smooth operator/fiddlestick concept. I wouldn't want to rappel off a wire-gate biner, which would then become the weakest link in the system. All the more so on a long rappel. The longer the rappel, the longer you are "on rope," and the wider open is the window for something to go wrong.
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  14. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    +1 on the Fiddlestick concept. We use a modified Smooth Operator we call the "Rap-Sure" which is almost identical to the Smooth Operator.
  15. gajslk

    gajslk

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    Thanks, Sonny, that was cool. It looks like each bight shorter than the last is important for a clean release. I might have missed that without the visual. Another tool for the box I hope I never have to use ...

    Gordon
  16. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I also have some doubts that it would work in the real world.

    For it to work, the paracord has to lift the entire weight of the hanging rope 6" or so to get the biner unclipped from the rapid link. Paracord is rather stretchy... it seems at the length this is intended for (200' plus), getting that lift could be very difficult, especially if the pull (para)cord crosses any edges.

    Could solve this issue by using a 5' leader of paracord to interact with the biner, then tying that to a stouter pull cord, such as a static 6mm pull cord.

    Also looks like the Rapide needs to be hanging free, which is often the case, but not always the case. I'm wondering if the pull is off to the side if the biner pops out of the rapide well.

    Just a point of language - "retrievable" is usually used for anchoring systems that are retrieved, leaving nothing behind. This is not one of those systems.

    Has anyone tried this more than a few times in the real world?

    Tom
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  17. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    X2

    But if it *did* work, we might have thinner rope grooves...
  18. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    how strong is a single wire-gate carabiner, anyway, compared to a loop of rope ?
  19. Rick Demarest

    Rick Demarest

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    While strength might be an issue, I personally stick to the adage: "Only use an unlocked carabiner on something you don't mind losing"

    While a few people might apply that to me, I don't.
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  20. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Both are about the same - 5000 lbs.

    If you put forces higher than that while rappelling...

    Tom
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