Send us a suggestion!

Tech Tip: Question Pull cord…cord vs 8mm Static Rope

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by dweaver2130, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. dweaver2130

    dweaver2130 Canyoneering Duo from AZ

    Messages:
    128
    Likes:
    55
    What is the general consensus of this argument?

    I enjoy the lightness of my 6mm pull cord when going through canyons with large drops.

    I also see the argument for carrying light 8mm rope to use as a pull cord and as a back-up incase something happens to your main rappel strand.

    What does the community say?
  2. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes:
    989

    I don't think there is consensus in the community on this one. Many will never recommend a small diameter pull cord, as it can't be used as a real rope for rescue, as a backup, etc., as you state.

    Others will argue that a pull cord is critical and a great tool, especially in skinny canyons with a lot of stemming required where the added weight/bulk can cause problems (experienced this - been there, done that).

    :eek:
  3. dweaver2130

    dweaver2130 Canyoneering Duo from AZ

    Messages:
    128
    Likes:
    55
    I figured as much, I am hoping to get another good discussion going, I have enjoyed the discussions as of late.
  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes:
    5,281
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    Using the FiddleStick, it is quite helpful to have a lightweight pull cord. Many addicted FiddleStickers have gone to an ultralight spectra pull cord.

    I find myself rarely carrying a 6mm pull cord these days. Mainly used when the group is quite small, so carrying even a little extra rope is a significant burden.

    Tom
  5. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes:
    1,868
    Location:
    Utah
    gajslk, hank moon and Deagol like this.
  6. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes:
    989
    I like it, great price.

    How does it throw/deploy, does it get caught from being bunched in a bag?

    Seems ~4 people pulling could break it (i.e. non fiddlestick difficult pull situtation), but in practice perhaps that would never occur, 1000lb?

    Bummer not in a 300' length.
  7. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes:
    5,281
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah

    Breaking is not the problem. CUTTING is the problem. Vulnerable to cutting across a sharp or rough edge, or abrading when stretched across an edge. Rarely does one need to pull the FiddleStick with more than one person, unless using some fancy-pants nouveau-tech knot... ;)

    Tom
  8. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes:
    989

    Good point. Dyneema seems fairly cut/abrasion resistant. However, I was thinking more of a lightweight cord that could also be used in situations for pulling rope, in addition to FiddleStick use. Something with a bit more diameter, say 2.5mm or 3mm? Thoughts? 2.2mm enough?

    Took me awhile to find some that were fairly priced:

    http://www.reddenmarine.com/samson-rope-amsteel-blue-foot.html

  9. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes:
    1,868
    Location:
    Utah
    I have 180' and it works fine for 200' drops if you use a cheap 5mm leader on the stick. In many cases, 20" of leader gets you past major lips and corners. Not always, but frequently. That way, you have piece of cheap replaceable cord taking most of the abuse.

    You could get a 1000' spool and split it with your buddies.

    Group buy anyone?
  10. dweaver2130

    dweaver2130 Canyoneering Duo from AZ

    Messages:
    128
    Likes:
    55
    How is it taking a knot out of the 2.2mm, any issues with certain knots or are the old standby's (Triple Fisherman's/EDK) still secure for matching this with say a 9mm rope?

    I second the thought by mountaineer on wondering about how well the 2.2 cord holds up on difficult (non-fiddle) pulls where you have several members assisting with the pulldown.

    I like the concept though, very light, cheap, and with a cheap leader you eliminate your cutting issue.
  11. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes:
    1,868
    Location:
    Utah
    Don't use knots, put a Brummell splice in the end of the line and tie a becket bend with the leader.
  12. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes:
    1,868
    Location:
    Utah
  13. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes:
    5,281
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    I like to say, you need a compelling reason to carry a pull cord. Just like you need a compelling reason to use a FiddleStick.

    Counter-indications to carrying a pull cord:

    1. Class C canyons - rescue capability important in Class C, a place for a pull cord seems unlikely.

    2. Close to the road - if you do not have to carry it a long way, just bring more real rope.

    3. Beginners and/or sloppy canyoneers along - rescue capability needs to be maintained unless all participants are capable of self-rescue for real.

    4. Abrasive/Sharp Rock - if the rock is known for cutting up ropes, then you need to bring more real ropes.

    Times when a pull cord is appropriate:

    A. Extra - bring a pull cord as an EXTRA length of rope, rather than as a substitute for a real rope: as your 4th length, not your 3rd length.

    B. For FiddleSticking - useful for reducing the FS pull cord weight on FS raps in the 100' to 200' length. (Super Pull Cord for raps longer).

    C. For Explorations - increases your capability for minimal weight, as a contingency.

    D. Small Group, long walk.

    E. Special circumstances, such as, only ONE long rappel.

    F. Adds speed: Some combo of above, but having one more pull cord can make leap frogging rappels more efficient (essentially, as the 4th length, rather than the 3rd length).

    Tom
Similar Threads: Pull cord…cord
Forum Title Date
General Discussion Best knots for undoing after being pulled really tight Oct 22, 2018
Tech Tips and Gear Pulley for long raps? Sep 25, 2018
General Discussion Two Ropes or Pull Cord Sep 7, 2018
Tech Tips and Gear VT Prusik: slow pull and drop testing Feb 26, 2018
Tech Tips and Gear Pull Cord For 300ft Rope Dec 15, 2017
Tech Tips and Gear "Pull cord" used for toggles? Sep 5, 2017