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Prep for Poe

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Jbryancoop, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Jbryancoop

    Jbryancoop

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    Today at school we measured out 44' and attempted to throw pot shots from our stairwell. Does this seem like a litgitmate set up to practice for the pit? It was for sure harder than we thought, but did manage a few times to get it out that far with half full pot shots.
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  2. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    not bad, although its surprising how much power is lost at the pit due to the unstable position of the left foot. I would practice until you can reliably land shots a few feet beyond the target
  3. Jbryancoop

    Jbryancoop

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    What is the net loss on the throw?
  4. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    I practiced at home standing on a chair and the wrung of a swing set (fairly secure approximation of a stem) and the ground was slopped uphill slightly and I could reliably make throws to 48-50', then when I got to the pit I managed to land one potshot out of 8 throws, most fell 2-3' short. I did have someone stabilizing my left foot, but I was trying to keep most of my weight on the wall and not their shoulder. A better option is to just ignore the wall and have someone put a couple elbow pads on their shoulder and you stand on it.
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  5. Ram

    Ram

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    That looks dangerous, Superman! Where is your back up, as if that would help:eek:;)

    Spoiler alert...Info below may rob some "discovery" from your adventure process. Enter at your own risk

    The altitude advantage seems about right. Maybe slightly higher than at Poe.
    Of note is that the Poe target is less than a yard wide, so accuracy matters.
    The throw is ever so slightly left of straight ahead.
    Most important is that the constriction is excellent, so that a bag 1/3 full is adequate. 1/4 even works, but is pretty light.
    What is tricky about that is the constriction is out of sight and has 2 levels. Only the lower constriction will hold.
    And there is no way to know if you got the lower one, from up canyon.
    Best to have at least 2, to as many as 4 shots, over there.
    There is no way to test if it will hold the climb out, from the up canyon side of the pit....so
    Someone has to go down there.
    If it holds and the climb out works...Bingo
    If it pulls on you, you should get the person out of the hole before they get cold and start from scratch.
    THE ROPE GROOVES THAT ARE ON THE ENTRY INTO THE PIT ARE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY CAUSED BY PULLING MISSED POTSHOTS BACK UP
    We as a community, can do better than this, protecting edges when hauling the pots and occasionally people back out.
    SOMETHING ELSE FOR CONSIDERATION.
    Redundancy. Have two people capable of the throw. Have 2 people capable of the climb out.
    A strained rib muscle or that kind of thing, to key personnel, could doom you, if you have just one superman for each of these tasks.
    Which brings us to the climb out....the pit is 24 feet deep to the bedrock.
    With several ropes on the multiple shots, ascending is impracticable (Innovation possible here).
    Hand over hand is the standard, for the climb out.
    The 24 feet is to the bedrock. I have seen sand 6 feet deep, in the bottom. Often 2-3 feet deep.
    The point? Without at least 3 feet of water in the pit, pulled shots can be very dangerous. Consider this carefully
    Tom, Spidey and I got past the pit in 45 minutes. That is because of Spidey and us only being 3 souls.
    In the subsequent trips, it has never taken less than 1 hour 45 minutes and as much as 3 hours. Serveral folks have spent the night
    My point? Upon arrival at the pit, it is time to take extra care of yourselves. Eat, drink, dress for success i.e. stay warm.
    Just sayin.....

    PS my best throw has been 35 feet. Not even close.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  6. Jbryancoop

    Jbryancoop

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    Thanks so much for the excellent analysis of the obstacle.

    We are considering a trip either late May or summer. I can see pros and cons of each. Thoughts on the best time to go?
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  7. Ram

    Ram

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    You talkin to me? FreezeFest was my idea
    All kidding aside...I am a cold weather canyoneer.
    Mid May into early September is mountain climbing season:happy::happy::happy:

    Murray and Stetson showing how its done
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    Others are more qualified to answer that. I have done March, a couple of April's, couple of early May's, couple of October's and November
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
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  8. Jolly Green

    Jolly Green

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    Water is usually colder in the spring. Likely fine by May though but the gnats will be out in full force. Go in September.

    My 2 cents. I practiced with a stem on some rocks in my backyard and consistently threw 50-55 feet with a half full potshot (extra weight) and no elevation loss. Most of my throws came up a few feet short at the pit for a variety of reasons. Tired hip flexors, weight difference between filling potshots with oozing mud and rocks vs sand, having 1 guy drop out so we had no one to hold the left foot, cold exposure, lack of energy from not eating enough. The hardest thing to replicate is the awkwardness of the left foot placement and the feeling like you are going to lose balance and fall down 15 feet. This definitely took a lot of momentum off my throws. Ram's advice of having 2 people equally prepared is definitely seconded by me. If nothing else you can trade off to reevaluate what you are doing wrong and conserve some energy.
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  9. caboalta

    caboalta

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    A few things from our experience.
    Go up high and out as far as possible, don’t waste time with knee on left wall, must be standing.
    Taller people can make the throw, 6’ 2” and up will have a big advantage.
    We put a carabiner/rope to the back of the throwers harness and had another person stand 2 feet behind (backing him up). The stance is not bad but feels sketchy when trying to throw from that position. This made it feel that you could give 100% and not fall forward into pit.
    We had 6 pots across before someone pulled themselves out on the pots. If they are going to fail it will be when you come over the lip and the ropes are not frictioned against the ground so be ready to make that final lunge.
    Pots were 1/3 full each, holding about 18” of rope above pot shot when throwing.
    Have person below thrower to be getting failed pots back and making sure lines are clear.
    Jolly Green and Ram like this.
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