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Potshots&Sandbagging~ was Re: Headless Hen

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by davewyo1, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. davewyo1

    davewyo1 Guest

    Here's a clickable link for the Imlay Canyon Gear "PotShot": http://tinyurl.com/59a5ma Three to five Potshots come in very handy. Dave



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@...> wrote:
    I would like to wade in... > First off, we use Potshots for sandbag techniques: > http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?
    productid=16140&cat=258&page=1 > We use them as temporary anchors for getting in and out of potholes.
    They are very helpful when you have a series of potholes in front of > you that have uncertain anchoring possibilities. Packtosses can work > in these pothole situations, but there are often reasons for not > tossing your pack. Most times your pack is too heavy to throw and you > are left with your pack in the upcoming pothole and a pile of > unloaded gear at your feet. Many times I carry things in my pack > which I would rather not be throwing around all day. > With Potshots, you can easily add or remove some sand, throw multiple > bags and dump your sand and move on when you are finished.
    It should be made clear that we are not using sandbags for rappelling > significant drops, or drops that have very bad landings.
    We use the Potshot anchors more often for a handline than for > actual "full-on" rappelling. > I break down the process into several steps and ALWAYS make sure that > we are out of the immediate problem pothole, have the ability to move > on from there and have adequate anchor materials to continue the > canyon.
    Obtaining Sand: Not always easy. Sometime I will carry a filled bag > through several potholes. > Tossing Potshot for escaping downcanyon(with testing of anchor > integrity): Get up high to throw. Throw several. Half-filled bags > have more friction than full bags. > Setting the Potshot for rappelling or handline(with testing of > retrieval ability): Position the potshot for maximum friction, > including the friction of the rope over the lip. Piling surrounding > sand on top of the bag can cement it in position. > Sequencing folks down in and back out the other side: It's important > to keep in mind that the first(and last) person out of a pothole may > need help. Boosting and such, comes to mind right away during pothole > escape, but it is often necessary to "capture" the last person in to > a pot while he/she is handlining down in. > Retrieving your anchors: Get up high and move down canyon to ease the > friction on the bag. Pre-testing the pull can insure that it is > retrievable but also shows where rope contact with the rock will > cause grooves.

    > Dave


    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@> wrote:

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Penny Martens" <penmartens@> wrote:
    > There have been several TRs for Headless Hen lately, and they all
    > commented on what fun it would be in full water conditions. Here > are
    > some photos from days gone by when this canyon was actually > watery.
    > http://tinyurl.com/63d4jx

    Penny

    Another wet day in Headless years back
    http://www.toddshikingguide.com/TripReports/NFNP_06/NFNP5b.htm
    > This area is ideal for learning the sandbag game. It is really
    remarkable how well they work. How little sand is needed. How close > to
    a lip they can be placed safely. As you tinker and with back ups, > one
    finds one using less and less sand than one would ever have > imagined.
    Perhaps Tom will wade in with some ideas and thoughts. I do have
    concerns about rope grooves. It was discussed before promoting this
    canyon. Remember to experiment with how to set the bags well BEFORE
    the last person goes off of them so they can be retrieved easily and
    gain more experience on what works and what doesn't. Two 1/4 filled
    bags, with different ends of a rope tied to them is easier to > retrieve
    than one half filled bag etc. Have fun, be careful and protect the
    rock.....and enjopy
    R
    >
  2. Bill

    Bill Guest

    What about using your rope bags?

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@...> wrote:
    Here's a clickable link for the Imlay Canyon Gear "PotShot": > http://tinyurl.com/59a5ma
    Three to five Potshots come in very handy. > Dave

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@> wrote:

    I would like to wade in...
    First off, we use Potshots for sandbag techniques:
    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?
    > productid=16140&cat=258&page=1
    We use them as temporary anchors for getting in and out of potholes.

    They are very helpful when you have a series of potholes in front > of
    you that have uncertain anchoring possibilities. Packtosses can > work
    in these pothole situations, but there are often reasons for not
    tossing your pack. Most times your pack is too heavy to throw and > you
    are left with your pack in the upcoming pothole and a pile of
    unloaded gear at your feet. Many times I carry things in my pack
    which I would rather not be throwing around all day.
    With Potshots, you can easily add or remove some sand, throw > multiple
    bags and dump your sand and move on when you are finished.

    It should be made clear that we are not using sandbags for > rappelling
    significant drops, or drops that have very bad landings.

    We use the Potshot anchors more often for a handline than for
    actual "full-on" rappelling.
    I break down the process into several steps and ALWAYS make sure > that
    we are out of the immediate problem pothole, have the ability to > move
    on from there and have adequate anchor materials to continue the
    canyon.

    Obtaining Sand: Not always easy. Sometime I will carry a filled bag
    through several potholes.
    Tossing Potshot for escaping downcanyon(with testing of anchor
    integrity): Get up high to throw. Throw several. Half-filled bags
    have more friction than full bags.
    Setting the Potshot for rappelling or handline(with testing of
    retrieval ability): Position the potshot for maximum friction,
    including the friction of the rope over the lip. Piling surrounding
    sand on top of the bag can cement it in position.
    Sequencing folks down in and back out the other side: It's > important
    to keep in mind that the first(and last) person out of a pothole > may
    need help. Boosting and such, comes to mind right away during > pothole
    escape, but it is often necessary to "capture" the last person in > to
    a pot while he/she is handlining down in.
    Retrieving your anchors: Get up high and move down canyon to ease > the
    friction on the bag. Pre-testing the pull can insure that it is
    retrievable but also shows where rope contact with the rock will
    cause grooves.




    Dave





    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@> wrote:


    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Penny Martens" <penmartens@
    wrote:

    There have been several TRs for Headless Hen lately, and they > all

    commented on what fun it would be in full water conditions. > Here
    are

    some photos from days gone by when this canyon was actually
    watery.

    http://tinyurl.com/63d4jx

    > Penny


    Another wet day in Headless years back
    > http://www.toddshikingguide.com/TripReports/NFNP_06/NFNP5b.htm

    This area is ideal for learning the sandbag game. It is really
    > remarkable how well they work. How little sand is needed. How > close
    to
    > a lip they can be placed safely. As you tinker and with back ups,
    one
    > finds one using less and less sand than one would ever have
    imagined.
    > Perhaps Tom will wade in with some ideas and thoughts. I do have
    > concerns about rope grooves. It was discussed before promoting > this
    > canyon. Remember to experiment with how to set the bags well > BEFORE
    > the last person goes off of them so they can be retrieved easily > and
    > gain more experience on what works and what doesn't. Two 1/4 > filled
    > bags, with different ends of a rope tied to them is easier to
    retrieve
    > than one half filled bag etc. Have fun, be careful and protect the
    > rock.....and enjopy
    > R
  3. Tom Jones

    Tom Jones Guest

    For tosses, sometimes the Rope SILOS or Bagarinos work. But for an anchor, not really. Pot Shots work so much better.

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Bill" <wmjaho@...> wrote:
    What about using your rope bags?
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@> wrote:

    Here's a clickable link for the Imlay Canyon Gear "PotShot":
    http://tinyurl.com/59a5ma
    > Three to five Potshots come in very handy.
    Dave



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@> wrote:


    I would like to wade in...
    > First off, we use Potshots for sandbag techniques:
    > http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?

    productid=16140&cat=258&page=1
    > We use them as temporary anchors for getting in and out of potholes.


    They are very helpful when you have a series of potholes in front
    of
    > you that have uncertain anchoring possibilities. Packtosses can
    work
    > in these pothole situations, but there are often reasons for not
    > tossing your pack. Most times your pack is too heavy to throw and
    you
    > are left with your pack in the upcoming pothole and a pile of
    > unloaded gear at your feet. Many times I carry things in my pack
    > which I would rather not be throwing around all day.
    > With Potshots, you can easily add or remove some sand, throw
    multiple
    > bags and dump your sand and move on when you are finished.


    It should be made clear that we are not using sandbags for
    rappelling
    > significant drops, or drops that have very bad landings.


    We use the Potshot anchors more often for a handline than for
    > actual "full-on" rappelling.
    > I break down the process into several steps and ALWAYS make sure
    that
    > we are out of the immediate problem pothole, have the ability to
    move
    > on from there and have adequate anchor materials to continue the
    > canyon.


    Obtaining Sand: Not always easy. Sometime I will carry a filled bag
    > through several potholes.
    > Tossing Potshot for escaping downcanyon(with testing of anchor
    > integrity): Get up high to throw. Throw several. Half-filled bags
    > have more friction than full bags.
    > Setting the Potshot for rappelling or handline(with testing of
    > retrieval ability): Position the potshot for maximum friction,
    > including the friction of the rope over the lip. Piling surrounding
    > sand on top of the bag can cement it in position.
    > Sequencing folks down in and back out the other side: It's
    important
    > to keep in mind that the first(and last) person out of a pothole
    may
    > need help. Boosting and such, comes to mind right away during
    pothole
    > escape, but it is often necessary to "capture" the last person in
    to
    > a pot while he/she is handlining down in.
    > Retrieving your anchors: Get up high and move down canyon to ease
    the
    > friction on the bag. Pre-testing the pull can insure that it is
    > retrievable but also shows where rope contact with the rock will
    > cause grooves.






    > Dave








    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "adkramoo" <adkramoo@> wrote:



    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Penny Martens" <penmartens@
    > wrote:

    > There have been several TRs for Headless Hen lately, and they
    all

    > commented on what fun it would be in full water conditions.
    Here
    > are

    > some photos from days gone by when this canyon was actually
    > watery.

    > http://tinyurl.com/63d4jx


    Penny



    Another wet day in Headless years back

    http://www.toddshikingguide.com/TripReports/NFNP_06/NFNP5b.htm

    > This area is ideal for learning the sandbag game. It is really

    remarkable how well they work. How little sand is needed. How
    close
    > to

    a lip they can be placed safely. As you tinker and with back ups,
    > one

    finds one using less and less sand than one would ever have
    > imagined.

    Perhaps Tom will wade in with some ideas and thoughts. I do have

    concerns about rope grooves. It was discussed before promoting
    this

    canyon. Remember to experiment with how to set the bags well
    BEFORE

    the last person goes off of them so they can be retrieved easily
    and

    gain more experience on what works and what doesn't. Two 1/4
    filled

    bags, with different ends of a rope tied to them is easier to
    > retrieve

    than one half filled bag etc. Have fun, be careful and protect the

    rock.....and enjopy

    R
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