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Tech Tip: Question Pothole Escaping for Dummies?

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by lostlandscapes, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    Your point was not lost on me. I was trying to clarify and merge the two points you were both making for the general audience.
  2. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    All right, "baggage" is a needlessly provocative term. I apologize for using it. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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  3. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    :thumbsup:

    I get your point and not meaning to quibble, but if one is a regular "baggage handler", isn't it reasonable to assume that THE ROLE is what makes for an enjoyable, dare I say, fantastic trip for that person?

    Nothing more unpleasant than being led by someone who is visibly annoyed with the role and/or the "baggage". (Some rare exceptions may apply. )
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Maybe. I would not know, since I NEVER have baggage on my trips... :moses:
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  5. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    I think we all enjoy introducing new people to the sport and showing them these beautiful places we enjoy. In fact, I had a recent wonderful trip through Neon with someone for whom it was a first canyon. I had to teach him how to rappel before the trip, work with him on acquiring gear, and keep a close eye on him to make sure he was safe throughout the descent. It was highly rewarding and in fact, was the entire purpose of the trip. A lot like taking my 10 year old through Pine Creek and Keyhole last fall. I didn't have any expectations of her doing any rigging, pulling, stuffing or hauling of ropes etc and I watched her like a hawk near edges and when attaching herself to the rope. Her job was to get herself through the canyon safely, keep herself warm, and mostly, have a good time. That was it. She had no responsibility for furthering the team's progress through the canyon.

    But taking 8 people, 5 of whom are like my friend or my daughter, through a hard, long pothole canyon would not make for a speedier descent than going with 3 experienced people. However, 8 experienced people could probably get through faster, easier, and safer than 3.

    That was my point and I certainly didn't mean to imply anyone on a trip is a "parasite," or "unvalued."
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    "But taking 8 people, 5 of whom are like my friend or my daughter, through a hard, long pothole canyon would not make for a speedier descent than going with 3 experienced people."

    Choosing a canyon that is appropriate for the group is an important skill. Seems like a fair number of accidents lately can be traced to the 'leader' wanting to do a certain (hardish) canyon, rounding up some random people of unknown skills to do it, and getting the whole group in trouble because the canyon is too tough. (Pandora - I'm looking at you!) (Meetup Groups - jus' sayin') Blaming one's companions gets the leader extra douchebag points...

    Tom
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  7. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    I never have had "baggage" either until....

    At the AZ Rondy this year I was able to get on a team doing Tank/Cibeque and we had to get back in time for our guide to attend the Crown Dancer ceremony. A fast team was assembled to complete the canyons before 3, but there were 2-3 people in the group who never touched a rope bag. However, everyone eventually had to wait up for us because we stopped passing the ropes forward. :tongue:
  8. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    so I'm thinking a great way to practice pothole escape is going bouldering with a pot shot and practice throwing it up on top of the boulder. just make sure you have a crash pad to catch your fall. has anyone tried this?
  9. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    You could try it, but it only simulates one aspect of complicated or difficult escapes: climbing the ropes.

    You generally (see: almost never)
    don't throw sandbags from below your lip in question.

    To practice climbing a ropes, just tie them off. To practice throwing sandbags, throw sandbags.
  10. levifackrell

    levifackrell

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    Good to know. I see pack tosses from below on YouTube sometimes but I guess the canyoneerers weren't thinking before they got in the pot hole.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  11. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    Yes and no. Pack tosses can be a different story. You generally don't climb a rope hand over hand from a pack.

    A pack toss can be used when you need just a little weight to wedge into a slot to give you that little something to hang onto.
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  12. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

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    Resurrecting this thread, as I think it's full of high quality information...

    To comment on and add to the above...

    The importance of practice and psychological preparation can not be overstated.
  13. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    It's funny you resurrected this post. I started thinking of other ways to throw or launch a potshot. Has anyone tried using a modified slingshot?
    5121jgno5sL.
    Similar to this, but it would have to be reinforced to handle the load of a potshot.

    s-l300.
    Or if you prefer this imagery better. :woot:

    I was also thinking a catapult would work, except the bulk and weight would be an issue.
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  14. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Since I am NOT a candidate for doing the throw, and like to solve problems by ingenuity, I briefly considered building a trebuchet for this toss. However, part of the difficulty is the launching point: setting up a device requires a stable platform, and there is no stable platform here, except back another couple of feet, down a couple of feet, and around a corner. When one considers actual geometry in canyons, lack of ideal starting points is a prominent feature of pothole problems.

    If one was to bring that amount of construction material into a canyon, it might be better utilized making a stable platform from which the throw can be made.

    And just to be clear, we already have an amazing machine available for doing such arcane tasks: the human body is an amazing and amazingly flexible machine.

    Tom
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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  15. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Bump... for the upcoming season.

    T
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  16. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    bump for upcoming season...
  17. Moab Mark

    Moab Mark

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    Video from years ago we didn't have a lot of skill but we survived. I saw this on the first few pages from 2013 so I thought I'd move it up. The guy shooting the video
    and the tall skinny guy first Canyons/ rappels they had ever done in their lives.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  18. Chasetharp

    Chasetharp

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    Just realized this thread is ancient and have no idea how to delete. Enjoying the read though!
  19. Forc

    Forc

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    Not sure how ancient this thread is, but I actually purchased a water balloon launcher and tried throwing a potshot with it. It does not work at all. The potshot is too heavy relative to the size of the launcher even when only 1/4 full. Youtube some pumpkin launchers and the size of them to get a feel for what you would need and how it's unfortunately impractical for a canyon.

    Have to keep doing my squats and shoulder exercises.
    Zach T likes this.
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