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Poe, Halls Creek Narrows, et al shortcuts closed.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scott Patterson, Mar 26, 2021.

  1. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    Apparently the NPS is cracking down on people doing Poe, Halls Creek Narrows, etc. who aren't parked at the standard Halls Creek Trailhead (or the lake) They want everyone to come in from the Lake or the standard Halls Creek Trailheads, not the shortcut routes. They are leaving warnings on vehicles that are unattended.

    Poe.
  2. Ram

    Ram

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    Hold your horses....interesting expression.
    This is from an important ranger in Capital Reef.

    "The overland route (Kingdom Route) is a known access point for backpackers to the Millers Creek area, as well as canyoneers. I think it is within the Glen Canyon zone, so camping may not be allowed there, but parking a vehicle and hiking in shouldn’t be a problem. I need to join the Facebook group before I can see the conversation, but I’ll reach out to the Rangers at GLCA (Bullfrog) and see what’s up."
    Kevin likes this.
  3. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    ...
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  4. Ram

    Ram

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    Well thank you for the "pass." I would hate to get "slapped" by you.

    That information of the encounter had already been passed along. If this act was arbitrary or policy change, it being out in the public is good. Naming names off a single encounter with one representative not so good. That not being public right away, allows room for the person or group of folks, who overreached, a quiet and graceful retreat, as opposed to the "digging in of heels" which humans tend to do when confronted or embarrassed. Diplomacy often thrives quietly, among peers (rangers in this case AND we do have many friends among them) and out of the glare. Things might be a little bit harder now, but we will see.
    RAM

    PS Scott. On the threat to "slap" folks who don't use the name "Lizard" as a canyon name in CapitOl Reef? You made a good case, if not a 100% conclusive. Maybe the best case. You undermined it with the threat. I know several people who have "dug in their heels" in response. You may have just been kidding, but not to good effect for your desired result. The public decides these type things. Remember to advocate politely....or not
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
    Scott Patterson likes this.
  5. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    Deleted. It was not meant to offend, but a gentle ribbing.

    As far as the other thread goes, point taken and I will edit it. Yes, I was kidding and I also said "don't do this" and that I wouldn't do it.

    I did not know, but whatever you hear back, let us know. It was already in a group post with thousands of members.

    PS, I took the post as an actually policy change, which is why I started this thread.

    Although I can see a mistake from an inexperienced ranger on something like the Subway thinking that the Wildcat Canyon Trailhead is only used for the Subway, in the case of this thread the ranger gave his name; is telling people which alternate trailheads to use and said that these are only warnings, but said that it will be tickets in the future.

    Also, this trailhead isn't the only place where the Glen Canyon NRA is saying no camping (and apparently overnight camping). A few weeks ago I drove from Ticaboo to Silver Falls Creek through the GCNRA. There are signs on parts of that road saying no camping that weren't there previously. So although we can all hope for some clarification on exactly what is going on, it seems to me that a policy chance might be coming. If it isn't, I'm sure that they'll let us know since you contacted them.

    Anyway, as far as the ranger goes, rangers don't make the policies. If they are enforcing them; then they are only doing their job. Even if I disagreed with a policy, I understand that the ranger doesn't have a say in what the policy is. The only time I'd be annoyed with it is when the ranger wasn't aware of the parks own policy and was trying to argue it if he/she was incorrect (such as harassing hikers going to North Guardian Angel or Northgate Peaks).

    It is true that if a closure is policy, it should be on the park website or posted on the ground. That said though, I still think that there's a good chance that "no overnight parking" at this location and others is going to become policy, if it isn't already.

    As for me, I'm not going to park there overnight until there is some clarification. Like the ranger said, other routes to get to those canyons are available.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
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  6. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    PS, speaking of policy change or policies in Glen Canyon NRA, some of the policies are a bit confusing.

    As most here know permits are now required (they have been for a while) for overnight use anywhere in the Escalante River system. This is true both for canyons in the Glen Canyon NRA and the BLM side/Monument. When I went there a few weeks ago we were coming from Ticaboo so I wouldn't be passing near the Visitor Center, which would be a really, really long detour. I called and asked if I could get a permit by phone or email and they told me to just get one at the trailhead. I got to the trailhead and there were no permits. We went anyway, but I wonder if I would have been ticketed?

    I was recently asked if a permit as required for Llewellyn Gulch and Reflection Canyon. I said that the group should just get one anyway, just to be safe, but I couldn't figure out if a permit is needed or not. The NPS website says: Backcountry permits are required for all overnight stays in the Escalante District of Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. Obtain permits at the Escalante Interagency Visitor Center in the town of Escalante or at one of the entry trailheads.

    https://www.nps.gov/glca/planyourvisit/camping.htm

    https://www.nps.gov/glca/planyourvisit/escalante.htm

    I couldn't find anything on the website defining exactly where the Escalante District is, but presumably it covers all of the drainages in the NRA that are side canyons of the Escalante River as well as the Escalante River itself.

    Llewellyn Gulch and Reflection Canyon don't drain into the Escalante, but to hike to them you park on the Hole in the Rock Road, which presumably is in the district. Is a permit required? I couldn't figure that out (I guessed probably not), but it wouldn't hurt to pick one up to avoid all questions. I know that that trailhead doesn't have any permits, though I guess you could make a detour and pick one up at somewhere like Coyote Gulch. It seems better to be safe than sorry rather than getting a ticket.
  7. Jenny

    Jenny

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    I don't often post these days/daze. However, I do want to cast kindness kudos to both Scott and Ram for the way in which the above has been handled. It is so refreshing on to have such a civil discourse take place as information/misinformation is resolved.

    I love our Canyoneering Clan and the Canyon Collective as a source of connection.
    Soon, this danged Pandemic will lose its grip on us and the northern border, and I'll be playing in the slots with you Americas again.
    Alane Urban, Ram and Sutitan like this.
  8. 3d3vart

    3d3vart

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    If you're talking about the parking for the shortcut to lower Halls, Millers, Poe, etc.(Rubble Pile), it is pretty easy to just park 1/2 mile up the Bullfrog Road on BLM land and walk from there. Same with Halls Overlook--BLM land abounds.
    Scott Patterson likes this.
  9. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Good point.

    By my map, it is 0.8 miles up the road to the BLM/GCNRA border.

    Tom
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  10. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    That's good news!

    If the parking place in Glen Canyon NRA gets closed for overnight parking, just drop the packs off there and someone will have to drive the car to outside the boundary and do a 15 minute walk.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
    Ram likes this.
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