Send us a suggestion!

Tech Tip: Video Oops, I Dropped My Rappel Device!

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Mountain Boy, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    690
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Good point. If you've never done one, the most common issue in a high angle situation, is, anchoring, taking yourself off belay, and, having the carabiners used for the brake go plummetting down into where-ever's-ville. Hard to remember to attach them or keep hold of them. If you pull the rope through...they're gone!

    You can do a carabiner brake with a single locker (as the first biner on your harness) then two sets of two from there on out. I've done with one, two or three carabiners as the brake.

    Class C? Only for the last rappel...and expect to lose your biners! Especially if the rope length is set to the pool drop.

    Not that complex. Its a locker, two biners opposite and opposed, bite of rope up through those two biners, then, clip a set of biners across the two biners and under the bite. Once you do it a few times, the concept is easy.

    Back in the day, folks carried 6 ovals for this purpose. Now, you're cobbling together whatever biners you have. Different sizes and wire gates make it harder to do. That adds to the complexity.

    But...I'd do a biner brake WAAAAY before I'd do a long rappel on a munter hitch. A biner brake is smooth and doesn't twist the rope.

    I usually carry at least a couple of "alpine quickdraws" in canyons. And, at least two of those biners are bigger. Automatically have the hardware for a biner block (given I have a locking carabiner too).


    [​IMG]
    Kuenn and hank moon like this.
  2. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes:
    1,140
    re: 'biner loss - yeah...use a carabiner brake a few times and you'll be down to the good ol' Munter Wrap in no time! har har..

    Please give the "Funter Hitch" a try sometime (not the std. Munter Hitch) and tell us what you think. It won't rap as smoothly as a CBR, but faster, simpler, less lossy and easier to remember counts for something...and in my few short experiences with the thing, it doesn't twist nearly as much as a std. Munter. "Try it, you'll like it" (honk if you remember than one...).
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
    Kuenn likes this.
  3. qedcook

    qedcook

    Messages:
    83
    Likes:
    27
    I've used this before. It works too well. It also twists your rope like crazy!
  4. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    690
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    No no no! Ha ha.

    Keep the rope in a straight line. I see folks rappel with especially an ATC and the rope gets all twisty. If you hold the rope at a 90 degree angle from the device, it'll twist.

    I learned how to rappel on a Dulfersitz, then, graduated to a biner break. Never had a rope twist.
    townsend likes this.
  5. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes:
    1,140
    Well...it's all on account of the transverse axis reverse-gumption conundrum factor. Or something like that. I don't know, in other words. Further to that, I've only done 20 or so short raps with Funter Hitch, none over 50' or so. Observed twist has consistently been less than that generated by a standard Munter but that's a purely subjective conclusion. Going to do a more formal/structured twist test on it in December. Expect a report with numbers (!) eventually.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes:
    3,544
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    Uh, yes you can.

    Having lots of tools is not particularly helpful. Having the right tool for the job IS helpful. I don't need 16 different ways to rappel using my helmet - I have a rappel device.

    In particular, I don't carry rapides large enough to do this with the rope. Did the poster mention that the rope running through those rapides can open the gates? No? Perhaps he should mention that.

    Jus' Sayin'...

    :moses:
    Rapterman, Kuenn and hank moon like this.
  7. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes:
    1,140
    I was wondering when that would get mentioned.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
    Rapterman likes this.
  8. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Having enough tools, so you have the right tool IS helpful.
    You don't need 16 ways to rappel using your helmet, but you need something...because based on the premise of this post you DON'T have a rappel device. It's sitting someplace down below.
  9. Rapterman

    Rapterman

    Messages:
    754
    Likes:
    1,016
    Been enjoying the great weather on some classic long (5-12 pitch) trad routes at Red Rocks.
    Shared JOHNNY VEGAS, and SOLAR SLAB with a nice couple from Germany.
    They were climbing on twin ropes (8.5mm?) and both belayed and rappelled the whole route
    with the Munter hitch.
    Not an ATC between them.

    They did have locking carabiners...
    :D
  10. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes:
    3,544
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    If I have a carabiner, I have a rappel device. KISS.
    Rapterman likes this.
  11. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    690
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    If I have a rope, and my body, I have a rappel device. Keep it simpler...ha ha.

    (Seriously, good skill to learn, and, hopefully never use!)
    Rapterman likes this.
  12. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes:
    1,140
    I'll do Behunin with you...on a Funter...if you do the whole thing with a Dulfer (and no fancy leather crotch pads). Heck, I'd do the whole thing on a Funter if you'll just do the final rap with a Dulfer :)

    Maybe we can also entice Mtn Boy to do it with us on a VTP...then we'd all Befulin. :D
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  13. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes:
    3,544
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    Yup, and when I read the old books, they talk about people blowing the dulfersitz and falling to their death. It might be a fairly good method.

    Fairly good not really all that good!

    :moses:
    Rapterman likes this.
  14. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    690
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Now, you can read the new books, they talk about people blowing their biner block and falling to their deaths.

    Har har.

    Just like anything...not without risk, can be mastered...

    Speakin' of the master...Ghastly Rubberfat!

    Starlight and Storm.
    Rapterman likes this.
  15. Kuenn

    Kuenn

    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes:
    1,135
    Oh, Oh Oh, Oh (Horshack) can I bring my rappelling Coke bottle? It would be a perfect fit on this dumb and dumber trip.

    Although I will admit, after Hank convinced me to try out the "super" munter a few weeks ago, I believe he would have the upper hand on methods...which is good...because we'll need at least one survivor to call out for rescue!

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
    Rapterman and hank moon like this.
  16. Rapterman

    Rapterman

    Messages:
    754
    Likes:
    1,016
    From one who has climbed in knickers / sweater with shoulder patch (47 years ago):
    the
    dulfersitz
    is
    GHASTLY :wtf:
    :D
    LonePeak, Kuenn and ratagonia like this.
  17. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    661
    Likes:
    690
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Geez, if that's what it takes to do a canyon with you...

    How 'bout Pinecreek? 100 feet of free air. 11mm climbing rope. And...in the interest of safety, I do it with a top rope.

    You wouldn't have to use a Munter (or super Munter).

    I learned the Dulferstz on gold line. No padding. We was tough back then...

    I got a few friends who want to make knickers popular again...(funny...as I type...I'm wearing a Patagonia rugby shirt...remember when the Chouinards were all the rage, with the white painter paints?).

    Rockin' it old school!
  18. Kuenn

    Kuenn

    Messages:
    1,170
    Likes:
    1,135
    Not to ignore the fun neck abrasion, i.e. super hickey. Played around with body rappels one time back in the 70s. Mother noticed the neck blemish. Not sure I ever did convince her it was administered by bluewater rope. :woot:
    LonePeak and Rapterman like this.
  19. Mountain Boy

    Mountain Boy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    12
    cool, Happy birthday.
  20. Terry LeBlanc

    Terry LeBlanc

    Messages:
    211
    Likes:
    81
    Location:
    South Florida
    That brings back memories...used heavy steel biners. Only needed 2 wraps back then, since I wasn't as "well developed" as I am now...<g> Good info, as always. Have to try the almost super munter.
Similar Threads: Oops Dropped
Forum Title Date
General Discussion OOPS! Lost rope in Zion 10/22/16 Oct 25, 2016
Trip Reports Voodoo Oops Jun 16, 2014
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Telephone, Das Boot & Subway - Whoops! Jun 24, 2008
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Whoops! Aug 7, 2007
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group OOPs notice Jul 13, 2007
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group ~TECH - Belay Loops and Cross Loading Biners Oct 31, 2006