Send us a suggestion!

Tech Tip: Video Oops, I Dropped My Rappel Device!

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Mountain Boy, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Mountain Boy

    Mountain Boy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    12
    If you had a bad day and you dropped your belay/rappel device, don't freak out, try the carabiner rappel.

    I would love to hear about other suggestions for resolving the problem of a dropped belay/rappel device.
  2. townsend

    townsend

    Messages:
    304
    Likes:
    275
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    Carry a second, or backup rappel device, something simple and lightweight to use in a pinch (e.g., ATC-XP).
    Deagol and Mountain Boy like this.
  3. TJ Cottam

    TJ Cottam Adventure Plus

    Messages:
    130
    Likes:
    114
    A munter hitch on a carabiner seems a lot simpler than the method in the video. But I also usually carry a second lightweight device.
  4. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    You can rappel off of a VT Prusik, plus it has multiple other uses like easily passing a knot and it is made out of Technora so it will not melt.
  5. Mountain Boy

    Mountain Boy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    12
    Where can you purchase a VT Prusik?
  6. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
  7. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes:
    1,126
    I prefer a Munter Hitch on single rope for a backup rap system - in particular, the "Funter Hitch" shown below in the bottom photo. Basically an incomplete Super Munter.

    Advantages over standard Munter:
    • Significantly greater control, with more ergonomic braking position (vs. holding the brake and anchor strands parallel)
    • Moving brake line is distanced from the carabiner screw sleeve, helping to avoid accidental unlocking
    • Greatly reduced rope twist
    No disadvantages yet for me, but might be too much friction for lightweight users (my weight: ~170 lbs).

    MP-1.


    MP-2.


    MP-3.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
    Kuenn, Canyonero, John Diener and 5 others like this.
  8. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes:
    1,126
    VT Prusik is good gear, but I would not rely on it as a "rappel device" except in a serious emergency. Control can be quite difficult, especially with dry, skinny rope. Fat wet rope can be somewhat less difficult, but even then it would be exhausting to do anything but relatively short descents.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  9. townsend

    townsend

    Messages:
    304
    Likes:
    275
    Location:
    Plano, TX
  10. Mountain Boy

    Mountain Boy

    Messages:
    17
    Likes:
    12
    I have have used this several times, but don't understand how it reduces twist... thoughts?
  11. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Agree, I was just offering up another suggestion. You can never have too many tools in your chest. And as always each situation is going to be different and cause the "It depends".

    One thing nobody ever really mentions is sharing gear. I would probably not (for example) rappel on anything I am unfamiliar with on a Heaps like rap. I would rather one of my partners send their device back up for me to use.

    Luckily many of the newer devices hardly ever have to be removed from your harness, making a dropped device much less frequent.
    Mountain Boy, Rapterman and hank moon like this.
  12. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    hank moon likes this.
  13. Canyonero

    Canyonero

    Messages:
    439
    Likes:
    467
    I've used munters before when partners forgot gear and I loaned them mine. I've always wondered how people do DRT on a Munter. Two separate biners with two separate munters? That was the way I did it, but it was a little weird and it felt like there should be a better way.
    Rapterman likes this.
  14. gajslk

    gajslk

    Messages:
    401
    Likes:
    295
    I rapped off Devil's Tower once using two munters on a single large biner during a fling with minimalism. The rope tangle was legendary. Never again. We had enough biners to rig a carabiner brake. Coulda' shoulda' woulda.

    Gordon
  15. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes:
    1,126
    Both ropes in one large HMS 'biner. But...single rope Munter so much more enjoyable!
    Rapterman likes this.
  16. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

    Messages:
    525
    Likes:
    473
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    D├╝lfersitz: I think means "The munter isn't so bad afterall"
    gajslk and Rapterman like this.
  17. Rapterman

    Rapterman

    Messages:
    746
    Likes:
    1,004
    Hank has got me practicing with the Munter-and a-half.
    It works purty durn good!
    - but his FINGERS are BIG though...
    Kuenn and hank moon like this.
  18. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

    Messages:
    653
    Likes:
    683
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Carabiner brake for sure. Way before considering a munter. I always try to have enough free carabiners to do a brake. No twisty.

    But, I've used both many times. And, learned to rap ala the Dulfersitz. And an arm wrap for low angle rappels.

    A skill everyone should know if a rappel/belay device is dropped or misplaced.
    gajslk likes this.
  19. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes:
    1,393
    Location:
    Utah
    Here's another quick and dirty rap trick. A buddy of mine says they used to teach this one in the army.

    I've actually used it for fun and aside from the fact that it can twist the rope, it's actually pretty effective.

    You have to be sure that you have something between your rap biner and the webbing of your harness to avoid the rope running against your harness.

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mountain Boy likes this.
  20. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes:
    1,126
    A carabiner brake rig (CBR) may be a good option for a descending climber, carrying a pile of non-lockers no longer needed for the ascent, but perhaps less so for the typical canyoneer:

    - Requires 4 - 6 carabiners minimum to rig (6 is the max. number I normally bring on an canyoneering outing). Using a CBR could leave me without carabiners for hanging a pack and other gear, changing to ascent if needed, etc. More than 6 carabiners could be needed to have enough friction on skinny single rope.
    - Works best with non-locking 'biners of similar size/shape; can be quite fiddly to set up with an assortment of locking carabiners.
    - Relatively slow and fiddly to rig, compared to Munter Wrap.
    - In class C, high potential for 'biner loss, especially when getting on/off rope.
    - Requires specialized knowledge that would rarely be reinforced through normal canyoneering practice.

    I imagine that transitioning (especially ascent to descent) would be nightmarish in a free hang. All of the above are musings based on zero "in combat" experience using a CBR, so a CBR-adept person might have a different view on these points (@Brian in SLC or @gajslk )?
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
    Kuenn and Rapterman like this.
Similar Threads: Oops Dropped
Forum Title Date
General Discussion OOPS! Lost rope in Zion 10/22/16 Oct 25, 2016
Trip Reports Voodoo Oops Jun 16, 2014
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Telephone, Das Boot & Subway - Whoops! Jun 24, 2008
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Whoops! Aug 7, 2007
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group OOPs notice Jul 13, 2007
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group ~TECH - Belay Loops and Cross Loading Biners Oct 31, 2006