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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by peakbaggers, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. peakbaggers

    peakbaggers "Beaten paths are for beaten men."

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    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Attention canyoneers: After nearly two years of working on this, I now have in hand an approved permit to install a two-bolt and chain anchor at the big rappel by Abbey Arch on the Lomatium Route in the Fiery Furnace of Arches National Park. The problem is, I know nothing myself in regards to bolt installation, so I’m looking for a person with that knowledge to assist in completing this as well as two other volunteers to help with the installation. The permit is good through the end of May. We can select ANY day within that time frame to do this. The park has only asked that we try to provide up to a seven day advance notice. A park official may or may not accompany us. The permit allows a total of four persons to go in.

    The permit does not authorize that we access the Abbey Arch location by way of the full, standard Lomatium route. We’ll have to go in by hiking around the south and east sides of the Furnace. Once the installation is complete, we are authorized to test the bolts by rappelling down and taking the standard exit route out of the Furnace. The bolts MUST be a screw-in type. Glued types are prohibited. I will personally incur the expense for the two stainless steel bolts, hangers and chain and take responsibility for painting them to match the surrounding rock. I just need the expertise and help to do this. The holes will have to be hand drilled. I’m hoping that among those who can help, there will be someone with the appropriate drill.

    In have a very flexible schedule and can do this most any time – weekend or weekday. The permit is not linked to the daily Furnace quota, so we don’t have to be concerned about getting there and finding we won’t be allowed to go in. Access is guaranteed whenever we choose to do this. The person with the needed expertise will determine the day. If interested, respond either directly here, send a PM.
  2. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    Hi Peak -

    Looks like I am your person of interest. We will work something out. I have 1/2" Stainless expansion bolts.

    Tom
  3. robert kyslovsky

    robert kyslovsky

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  4. UtahNich

    UtahNich

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    If you still have room, I'd be happy to be part of this. I don't have experience bolting, but I'd be happy to help out just carrying things and such. My schedule is also flexible and I can do it whenever as well.
  5. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    Location:
    SLC, Utah
    Peak and Tom,

    I would love to join you guys on this trip as well. I know the route, well, and would relish the opportunity to participate.

    Please keep me in mind.
  6. NotBob

    NotBob

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    I'd love to help and have some experience.

    I was just down there Saturday and am certainly disappointed with the damage to the tree and rope groves that have developed from people pulling the rope from short webbing (people keep taking my 50 feet I leave with the rapide to the edge past the lil' pothole). Bolts on the rim just above that lil' pothole would be perfect - little to no chance for rope groves there.

    It's a shame, however, that the park prohibits glue-ins. Glue-ins are really the only appropriate hardware in soft sandstone like this and those new ss 6-1/2 inchers from Fixe are ideal.

    Whether I get to come or not, just promise not to glob caulk all over the bolts and rock like the bolts at the next drop ;)
  7. NotBob

    NotBob

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    Thank you for making this happen!... for protecting the route from further rope groove damage, and for protecting the tree from further damage.

    I'll attach photos of the recent damage to the tree and rock.

    “I am the Lorax. I speak for the trees. I speak for the trees for the trees have no tongues.”

    Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
  8. NotBob

    NotBob

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  9. NotBob

    NotBob

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  10. peakbaggers

    peakbaggers "Beaten paths are for beaten men."

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    To all who have responded, thank you doing so and your interest in this project. As of now, Tom has volunteered to perform the installation. The date will be determined by him when he can work it into what I am sure is a busy spring schedule for him. When we have a date, I will post that here. The permit only allows four of us to go in to do this. That means I can only take 2 volunteers besides Tom & myself, so I may have to be selective, but the date Tom chooses may eliminate some from participating.
    NotBob - as for the type of bolt to be used, the issued is settle as far as the park is concerned. Their "officials" made this determination even though it was not what I applied for, which was for a glue-in type. If this is going to happen at all, I have to conform to their directions. In your photo, the placement is almost exactly what we recommended and had approved. The rock looks pretty solid there. And one other thing I will add, the park long ago made it clear that any webbing left there, if found by them would be removed. That's probably why your webbing has disappeared at times. That really left the only option for the time being to use something like a fiddlestick setup or a long retrievable.
    Ram likes this.
  11. NotBob

    NotBob

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    Got it. Long retrievables could explain the messed up bark on the tree too.

    And again, thanks for pushing to get this approved. We'll take what we can get with the expansion bolts. They'll be stainless minimum 1/2" x 4-1/2" and 9" apart I trust - Tom knows what he is doing so I don't need to worry obviously :) The good thing is that when the "officials" see the light the bolts could always be replaced with glue-ins as spinner-holes can be reused upon future recommendation - if necessary.
  12. peakbaggers

    peakbaggers "Beaten paths are for beaten men."

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    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
  13. John Styrnol

    John Styrnol

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    Location:
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    I know nothing about bolt placement, but you can reuse bolt holes? Wouldn't be better to plug the old hole and put in another nearby or somewhere else?
  14. NotBob

    NotBob

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    It depends, right?... minimize impact while preserving life. If the hole is salvageable its reused. If not, fill the old, analyze why the first one failed, adapt as appropriate to reduce the chance of a future failure and make a new placement or abandon the site.

    Glue-in hardware requires cutting off the eye of the bolt and using a core drill to remove the old glue and bolt shaft (this is not something you'd do with a hand pecker). The hardware remains the same size as the original.

    Soft rock replacements of expansion bolts would require mechanically extracting the old bolt and all of its little components, reaming the hole bigger in diameter and up-sizing of the replacement bolts.

    The answer is clearly not what is easiest... and "better" is dependent upon ethical debate and policy. Best, or truth, is rarely obtainable or even recognizable by most humans... but we can aim at something.
    John Styrnol likes this.
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