Jumping

Have done jumps up to 80 feet; can be fun if you know what you are doing. For higher jumps, keep your legs together when you hit the water (or could do some serious splits), your arms to your side (high jumps can bruise or even break arms), and bend your body in a direction that doesn't have a wall after you hit. Don't have to go that deep. I'm sure others are more experienced than me, and can give other pointers.

Have done numerous shallow water landings before as well. Maybe 20-30 feet into 3-ish feet of water. Robert, can be done to safely descend a drop with a difficult/impossible anchor (without sinking a bolt.) Like someone else also said, we do more of a back smacker, many times arms helping support the head (so no whiplash), wearing a pack with the drybag mostly inflated (to help not go down as far.) Sometimes can be leaning a little more forward to take some impact up with the legs; but need to keep them loose.

No matter what, always send someone down first to scout the drop, make sure there are no underwater hazards that aren't visible, etc.

Willing to listen to other tips people have too.

In the right canyons and right conditions, jumping can be a blast... (it can also be the most stupid, and possibly the last, thing you will ever do, so be careful.)



--- In Yahoo Canyons Group, Anton Solovyev <anton@...> wrote:
Curious: has anybody tried to jump from the high ledge (the last > rappel/handline) into a pothole in Subway? Seems like it could work.
cyber_rager wrote:

I saw a recent Mythbusters (I know, but it is fun to watch) and they were looking at jumping from 35 ft into 4 ft of water. They were trying to prove/disprove that if you jumped onto a mattress, you would survive if you landed on your butt on the mattress. They found out that your would die if you did that (land on a floating mattress) but you could, with the right technique, jump into 4 ft of water from 35 feet and survive. It is interesting to note that if you land wrong from 35 feet, you could die from that, or have severe injuries to your pelvis.

I am not one to randomly jump during a canyoning or caving trip, but I have done it and lived to tell about it.

What is the highest with the shallowest landing that you have jumped into? What would be a good general rule of jumping, i.e. what do you look at or do to determine that its safe to trust gravity?

I think I have jumped maybe 20 ft into 6 feet of water. I know that the highest I have jumped is about 60 ft (scary) but that was into deep water.

Scott
--
Anton Solovyev >

A lot of people I know and respect cringe when the topic of jumping is addressed. Jenny has guided too many people in wheelchairs with spinal injuries. Rick Green has helped evacuate too many folks with lower body injuries. There are others who can "wade" in on the subject, well on tghe side of caution...or just DON'T DO IT!. We have to remember where we are doing these activities. Often in deep wilderness, hard to get locales, where every injuries seriousness is spiked by distance and difficulty to medical care. That said, I believe jumping has a role in descending a canyon at times

I am making a distinction between Utah canyoneering, rarely class C and often with water that is not clear. It isn't Europe, Sierra's, the Northwest or Colorado canyoneering. It is much more difficult to ascertain whether a jump is safe. In Utah canyons I have developed my own set of rules/guidelines for jumping, shared with several partners and I tend to stick to them.

At times, at certain drops, where lack of anchor material, no available stances for "capture techniques", no sand, water or favorable geometries exist, I feel a jump is the safest (vs other options) and fastest (speed is safety) and warmest option (keep moving!). We have several really talented shallow water jumpers. Some of them are Drue Keil, Brendan Busch, Aaron Ramras among others. The procedure of checking out depth, the nature of the bottom etc., has been touched on in this thread already. One of my guidelines is that only one person will jump, the last person, per drop. Its treated as an acceptable risk. Adding risk by more than one person jumping is considered bad form. Many might be able to do it. Might want to do it. but only one exposure to the risk, per place please. Everyone but the jumper goes off of meat anchor. The last person jumps.

There are a lot of different techniques for a lot of different circumstances. Much of it intuitive. Practice in a pool was the way Aaron learned. A lot of it is common sense...although if one is jumping, rapping, capturing etc. deep in the wilds, perhaps common sense is in short supply? ;-) Ram

--- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "cyber_rager" <cyber_rager@...> wrote:
I saw a recent Mythbusters (I know, but it is fun to watch) and they were looking at jumping from 35 ft into 4 ft of water. They were trying to prove/disprove that if you jumped onto a mattress, you would survive if you landed on your butt on the mattress. They found out that your would die if you did that (land on a floating mattress) but you could, with the right technique, jump into 4 ft of water from 35 feet and survive. It is interesting to note that if you land wrong from 35 feet, you could die from that, or have severe injuries to your pelvis.
I am not one to randomly jump during a canyoning or caving trip, but I have done it and lived to tell about it.
What is the highest with the shallowest landing that you have jumped into? What would be a good general rule of jumping, i.e. what do you look at or do to determine that its safe to trust gravity?
I think I have jumped maybe 20 ft into 6 feet of water. I know that the highest I have jumped is about 60 ft (scary) but that was into deep water.
Scott >

Ram was the individual I referred back in a previous post and since he has outed himself I'll give him the credit due him. It is not something done carelessly but he has developed it over time.

But using a meat anchor does not always go as planned especially if someone does not weight the meat carefully. I had been invited to do Clear Creek with Ram and this was my 3rd canyon out in the Escalante/North Wash area and I had little experience with meat anchors. Ram was the meat for this particular pothole and I watched others pull it off quite cleanly and when it was my turn I slowly slipped over the edge but then gravity took over and I weighted it a little bit too strongly. I then saw Ram's head appear right above me and I thought he was going to come all the way over and land on top of me but he didn't. I heard some strong words from him as I apologized about my technique. I exited the pothole and we pulled the rope, then Ram executed one of his patented sitting jumps into the 2 feet of water. Another lesson learned but with no bad consequences.

bruce from bryce p.s. two weeks in the sling for my shoulder and there is still a lot of localized pain. Routine things like trying to catch a tipping cup produce level 9 shock pain. Ouch!!

--- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "RAM" <adkramoo@...> wrote:
A lot of people I know and respect cringe when the topic of jumping is addressed. Jenny has guided too many people in wheelchairs with spinal injuries. Rick Green has helped evacuate too many folks with lower body injuries. There are others who can "wade" in on the subject, well on tghe side of caution...or just DON'T DO IT!. We have to remember where we are doing these activities. Often in deep wilderness, hard to get locales, where every injuries seriousness is spiked by distance and difficulty to medical care. That said, I believe jumping has a role in descending a canyon at times
I am making a distinction between Utah canyoneering, rarely class C and often with water that is not clear. It isn't Europe, Sierra's, the Northwest or Colorado canyoneering. It is much more difficult to ascertain whether a jump is safe. In Utah canyons I have developed my own set of rules/guidelines for jumping, shared with several partners and I tend to stick to them.
At times, at certain drops, where lack of anchor material, no available stances for "capture techniques", no sand, water or favorable geometries exist, I feel a jump is the safest (vs other options) and fastest (speed is safety) and warmest option (keep moving!). We have several really talented shallow water jumpers. Some of them are Drue Keil, Brendan Busch, Aaron Ramras among others. The procedure of checking out depth, the nature of the bottom etc., has been touched on in this thread already. One of my guidelines is that only one person will jump, the last person, per drop. Its treated as an acceptable risk. Adding risk by more than one person jumping is considered bad form. Many might be able to do it. Might want to do it. but only one exposure to the risk, per place please. Everyone but the jumper goes off of meat anchor. The last person jumps.
There are a lot of different techniques for a lot of different circumstances. Much of it intuitive. Practice in a pool was the way Aaron learned. A lot of it is common sense...although if one is jumping, rapping, capturing etc. deep in the wilds, perhaps common sense is in short supply? ;-) > Ram
--- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "cyber_rager" <cyber_rager@> wrote:

I saw a recent Mythbusters (I know, but it is fun to watch) and they were looking at jumping from 35 ft into 4 ft of water. They were trying to prove/disprove that if you jumped onto a mattress, you would survive if you landed on your butt on the mattress. They found out that your would die if you did that (land on a floating mattress) but you could, with the right technique, jump into 4 ft of water from 35 feet and survive. It is interesting to note that if you land wrong from 35 feet, you could die from that, or have severe injuries to your pelvis.

I am not one to randomly jump during a canyoning or caving trip, but I have done it and lived to tell about it.

What is the highest with the shallowest landing that you have jumped into? What would be a good general rule of jumping, i.e. what do you look at or do to determine that its safe to trust gravity?

I think I have jumped maybe 20 ft into 6 feet of water. I know that the highest I have jumped is about 60 ft (scary) but that was into deep water.

Scott
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