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Intracacies of the Zion Permit System

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ScottM, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    How does the scenario below occur? The Advanced Lottery for the month of September has now completed, which given full quota demand should only allow for Last Minute Drawings for future dates in Sept. Daily Quota = 12 people with 6 slots available for Advanced Lottery and 6 slots available for Last Minute Lottery (LML). Notice all days in mid-July through August still have 6 days remaining - those allotted to the quote for the LML. Here's the crux, Sept. 21st and 28th are obvious, the quote for the Advanced Lottery were not consumed. However, can someone please tell me why the LML quota for the dates within Sept. 13-16 and then 26-30 are also not "6" (along with other singular days in Sept.)?

    IMG_0868.PNG
  2. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    Those are some odd numbers on that screenshot. I know the Reservation race experienced some serious hiccups yesterday at start time. For example, I was charged for a permit that I did not receive. Refund is pending. I bet those numbers will update to look more normal sometime soon. If not, let's ask the Park about it!
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  3. Morgan

    Morgan

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    FWIW, I am surprised that so many permits exist for the September rendezvous time period after yesterday, but upon quick glance most people have secured keyhole/pine permits thus far.
    Tom Collins likes this.
  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Uh, well, no.

    "The Advance Lottery is for trips through The Subway and Mystery Canyon. Due to the popularity of these two areas, the park created an online lottery for reservations. The Advance Lottery does not run from November through March due to a low demand for permits."

    https://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/canyoneeringpermits.htm

    For all other canyons that are on the list, it is an advance reservation system, first come first served.
  5. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    Hank, my apologies for not making it more clear that this screenshot is from Mystery - which is handled via Advanced Lottery.

    I, too, was duplicated a charge for a permit requested last Friday. Sounds like we had a similar experience, what steps have you taken this far to secure a credit? I called the WD, have yeti receive a call back.
  6. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    Those permits are supposed to be available and not allocated until the LML runs, 2 days prior to the desired trip date. Any date in red has allocated all advanced slots and should show 6 remaining (see August) until 2 days prior.
  7. Morgan

    Morgan

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    ^^^Yes I was just surprised to see so much green still.
  8. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    Oh, now I see your point. One thing I failed to mention, the screen cap was from yesterday (11:00 AM), those (green) slots are long gone. :)
  9. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    So, are we chalking this up to a system "glitch"? If so, it appears this is still not rectified. Would be curious to know if folks were actually issued permits (other than the normal 6 allotted for the Advanced Lottery)

    More recent screen cap below:

    upload_2016-7-6_13-46-33.
  10. Morgan

    Morgan

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    Sorry I should have clarified, I was talking about all of the reservable canyons, not just Mystery. I would have expected most permits to be reserved considering the sheer number of people that participate.
    ScottM likes this.
  11. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    Well, I obviously need :help: with the intricacies, too. Totally forgot about that part of the system and had it confused with the LML. Thanks Scott and Tom for setting the record straight! My post edited to take out the rubbish.
    ScottM likes this.
  12. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    I called the Kolob VC and was assured a refund was in the works. They had already flagged the bad transaction before I called. Will let you know if it does (n't) come through soonish.
  13. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    NEWS (to me) about ZION reservations:

    It is possible to make certain changes to existing ZION slot canyon reservations. You can change the number in the party (decrease only, I suppose), as well as cancelling the reservation entirely.

    Here's the link to make changes:

    https://zionpermits.nps.gov/ziontransactions.cfm

    And a screenshot of a change-able reservation:


    Screenshot 2017-10-07 20.30.02.

    @ratagonia
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  14. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    Yeah that’s new-ish. I’m not sure exactly when the change was made, it’s been a little while, but it wasn’t always like that.
    hank moon likes this.
  15. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I don't have a pending reservation, but...

    When I tried to give up a reservation, I could only do so with the Permit Number. But when you get a reservation, you are not yet issued a permit number. Therefore... ???

    ZionWilderness1.

    ZionWilderness2.
  16. hank moon

    hank moon lovely ligatures

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    A standard reservation (i.e. not a Last Minute Lottery reservation) has the required order number in the confirmation email. I wonder if completing the wilderness reservation application as suggested in @ratagonia 's email screenshot would result in another email being delivered with an order number? BTW this thread is well named!

    hank
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  17. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Having a little fun with it....

    for-dummies.1.
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  18. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    Why thank you! :happy:
  19. ScottM

    ScottM Looking for a canyon, you got one?

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    @ratagonia, @hank moon

    I believe this can also be achieved if you have an express account, and have made the initial reservation under that account.
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