Tech Tip: Video HowNOT2 (Youtube Channel) Series on Canyoneering

Despite the tongue in cheek name, this Youtube channel does an excellent job of going over all sorts of things related to climbing, canyoneering, caving, and high lining. Also tons of break tests, which are always really interesting to see.

In particular, here's the first video kicking off an overview of Canyon Rope Systems:

Check out the "textbook" they're working on, currently in Google Doc format while they work on the website based on my understanding. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ykct23X1PQVnj5fYII5fa-7QrVgL6i0ZPfD0bQTjwPw/edit

I have no affiliation with this channel or the individuals, just has been a helpful resource in learning about all sorts of things I like to do when standing on the ground like a normal human being isn't cutting it for me.

Crickets? This is a great resource. Check it out. The PNW folks are really getting after it up there.

I decided to sign up for the channel on Patreon and have access to the rest of the videos in the series before public release. It's a really comprehensive overview. They'll be released on YouTube for free over the next several weeks. That in combination with the PNW technical book has been a really great combination.

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I'm usually a cheapskate when it comes to stuff like that, but I Venmo'd them a 10'er and they sent me the link. Good Stuff, quite comprehensive indeed. I haven't really done Class C canyons, but this really is a great resource for those rope systems.

Ryan and his channel are great. Ill admit, I enjoy mindlessly watching him break things. His channel has been discussed here before, I believe for an older fiddlestick episode.

Ive always had a handful of ideas that id like for him to test, but they're probably too obscure for the mass appeal of his channel and probably caters only to the esoteric curiosity of a few. Measuring forces actually applied to sandtraps and cairn anchors on rappels. how much force it would actually take to release a toggle or CEM when weighted. test various figure 8 contingencies (including EMO and Euro 8) to measure slipping/breaking forces, test out how much force it would take to break some seriously grooved descenders and biners (I know plenty of us some to donate...). It would also be worth testing various statics in these situations, and I know our canyon ropes range from very stiff to somewhat supple.

Id also love to see a multi-year test of aging webbing and testing its breaking strength. Im a fairly obsessive webbing replacer, and will replace most things with minor discoloration or stiffness, and I'm not certain his tests would change my habit, but I would be very curious to see how webbing deteriorates.

I suggest you take their stuff with a grain of salt.

I find them entertaining. But they are not canyoneers, and some of the stuff they do not really understand what they are doing.

Your time is much better spent with people who know what they are doing: https://v7academy.com/en/

(first course is free).

I can tell you that at least one of those tests is coming up in the series that's to be released. I think a lot of those sound great, and you should send the suggestions his way! Additionally, they do accept gear to test as donations. I'd love to see some of the biners with deep grooves tested.

They're very up front about their levels of knowledge and how watching a few Youtube videos does not prepare you to go down a canyon on your own. The host, Ryan, is particularly vocal about being a beginner in many of these areas (canyoning and caving, for example). Brent Roth, who is really running the educational bit on these, seems like a solid source of information, though, based on the credentials I've seen.

The V7 Academy stuff is pretty good thus far, but being about half way through the first course, I haven't really learned anything new yet. Great for total beginners, for sure. Hopefully the second course is more in depth and can actually help build knowledge around "leading" a party. Admittedly, people are going to find this information one way or another and go out there and do things they may or may not be prepared for. I am in support of more broadly sharing information and how to guides on this stuff in all different formats (web, video, book, etc.) to help better prepare the DIY education folks.

I also started the first V7 course and got bored by the beginner oriented material. I guess I should finish it before critiquing. The HowNot2 Google Doc courset definitely gets to the good stuff much quicker and therefore is less beginner friendly. From what I've gone through the techniques are solid and thought provoking. They do get in the weeds a bit, and present more advanced stuff quickly, but that's kind of the style of the HowNot2 channel for better or worse.

The HowNot2 courset is only geared toward rappel systems and rescue considerations, no anchors or how rappel or canyoneer. It presents several rigging methods and goes through the pros and cons of those systems with regard to: ease of rigging, ease of rescue/releasability, efficiency, and abrasion mitigation. I like the way the terms are presented and the photo quiz is well done.

The host Ryan is not a canyoneer and is a total noob, but Brent who created the material has clearly is. I'd be curious specifically what "stuff they do not really understand what they are doing." as Tom said. As always one must be cautious when implementing any techniques, but "take with a grain of salt" might be overly pejorative.

I guess I need to go finish these courses in case anyone want to come at me

A few years back, I ran a 1-day basic skills course at a canyoneering event. A lot of the folks who attended had completed high-level courses and could rig complex rescue / haul systems, etc. However, the same people could not (for example) reliably tie a munter hitch, lock off rap devices w/o thinking about it, etc. Sometimes, the wowsy stuff that makes you feel like you're learning something new is of less use than dialing in the basics that you think you already know.

I just wrapped up the Level 1 course on V7, and while the latter half of the course was more interesting, and the swift water aspects were new to me (ways to swim with a pack in swift water safely, for example), it is by design intended for beginners. I do think it's a great course, and really like what they put together as a free resource. Has anyone taken the Level 2 course? Based on the quality, I'm highly considering it, but admittedly, I'm far more likely to be doing mostly Class A canyons, so a lot of the water management stuff, while interesting, seems less relevant to my education at this point in time. That's not to say Class B and C canyons don't look cool! They absolutely do. Just knowing the people I tend to go with, they're less likely to want to do a canyon with a lot of water present.

I agree that experience is king. But for those that want to take it to the next level they will find the information useful. If you can't tie a MMO in your sleep your not gonna find much of the information of any use. From what I've seen in the series it isn't just the how, it's also the why or why not. This forum is great at the why and why not stuff, and that's why I wanted to hear what you folks thought of the HowNot2 canyon stuff.

Reason I have actively not taken a course (and instead practice practice practice) is somewhat in step with your sentiment: "Those who can't do, teach" kind of vibe.

Stefprez,
[QUOTE="stefprez, post: 121550, member: 16530"Has anyone taken the Level 2 course?


I have taken a L2 course. Not the v7 one online but an in person one. They’re good for self rescue techniques, pothole escapes, ect. They don’t really cover much class C stuff and really only taking a swift water class will cover that. I’d recommend it if you’re not going out with really experienced people and you will get a ton of reps in over a weekend.

A V7 Academy L2 course and an Uber L2 course are rather different, like they both use ropes, but... Not as different as taking an L2 Tig Welding course which after all does not use ropes.

Tom