Send us a suggestion!

How strong is that Old Webbing?

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by charlybldr, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. charlybldr

    charlybldr Guest

    At ITRS (International Technical Rescue Symposium) this year one of the presenters expressed interest in pull testing old webbing to see how it holds up to exposure to the elements. As canyoners we often find ourselves in the position of replacing old webbing at anchors.

    I would like to ask anyone who is interested to collect and send me old webbing from canyon anchors. Please note the canyon it was removed from and any pertinent information (sun/water exposure or lack of etc.) that might be relevant.

    These samples will be categorized by appearance (faded, crusty etc.) and pulled to failure. Data will be presented at next year's ITRS.

    Please contact me directly if you have anything to contribute.

    Thanks.
  2. hank moon

    hank moon Guest

    A similar study was done at the Gunks sometime in the past decade - be interesting to compare notes.

  3. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    Reference??? Link????

    Enquiring Minds Want to Know!

    T

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, hank moon <onkaluna@...> wrote:
    A similar study was done at the Gunks sometime in the past decade - be > interesting to compare notes.
    > >
  4. garet1962

    garet1962 Guest

    Sounds like someone in the Gunks had the same idea as me.

    Way back when I was in engineering grad school, I had access to large testing equipment. So I did a little research project on my own with 'found' webbing recovered from climbing rappel stations in the Boulder/Estes area.

    Instead of cutting off the old webbing, I carefully untied the knots (sometimes took some effort) and then retied them into loops with the knot in exactly the same spot of webbing. After collecting 2 or 3 dozen samples, I asked half dozen other climbers to rate each one as Good, Fair or Poor condition (very unscientific). In general, most of the Poor ones had cuts part way through, some as much as 75% or so and the Fair ones had significant fading.

    I then broke them in a machine and measured the ultimate load. To avoid complication I used a large radius anchor (probably an inch or more). I also intentionally placed any frayed points at the mid-point, away from the anchors.

    Surprisingly, even the most pathetic looking samples held more than body weight. These were horrible pieces, so tattered and ugly that no one in their right mind would trust a life to them. Of note (and going only from memory) I recall that some still broke at the knot even though they had minor cuts.

    I then wrote an article published in Climbing magazine. It was probably 1985 to 1987. Sorry, but I can't lay my hands on a copy of it.

    My take from all this:

    1) Visual inspection of webbing is generally quite conservative with regard to its strength as a body-weight anchor.

    2) Webbing is cheap, hospitals are not.

    3) In the canyons, webbing strength is only a small factor in the overall anchor system. Many other parts of the system are likely to fail first.

    4) Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.

    Garet

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
    Reference??? Link????
    Enquiring Minds Want to Know!
    T
    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, hank moon <onkaluna@> wrote:

    A similar study was done at the Gunks sometime in the past decade - be
    interesting to compare notes.



    >
  5. aj.outdoors

    aj.outdoors Guest

    Very cool Charly! Thank you!

    For a while now, I've been meaning to approach the guys at Rocky Mountain Rescue group, and see if they would want to use their test machine to do something similar; but I just haven't had the time to move forward with that. So, in it's stead, I'll keep my eyes open for some good candidate webbing for you...

    If possible, please post the results here as well...

    (Note: from previous experience/testing, and research about other tests, I've seen webbing still be plenty strong (1000+ lbs) even when it was far beyond the state I would feel comfortable using it as an anchor...) Will be interesting to have another data point.

    As usual/obvious though, webbing is cheap, so I will continue to recommend everyone err on the side of caution; regardless of the test outcome...

    Take care, A.J.

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "charlybldr" <charlybldr@...> wrote:
    At ITRS (International Technical Rescue Symposium) this year one of the presenters expressed interest in pull testing old webbing to see how it holds up to exposure to the elements. As canyoners we often find ourselves in the position of replacing old webbing at anchors.
    I would like to ask anyone who is interested to collect and send me old webbing from canyon anchors. Please note the canyon it was removed from and any pertinent information (sun/water exposure or lack of etc.) that might be relevant.
    These samples will be categorized by appearance (faded, crusty etc.) and pulled to failure. Data will be presented at next year's ITRS.
    Please contact me directly if you have anything to contribute.
    Thanks. >
Similar Threads: strong Webbing
Forum Title Date
Tech Tips and Gear How Strong is a POT STICKER? Sep 15, 2015
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group OT-Bad day for a strong and lucky lady Jan 9, 2012
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Documentary: Strong views on Utah wilderness Feb 1, 2010
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group Unusual Weather this Weekend - Strong NOAA Advisories Aug 29, 2008
Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group 5 Mile-A strong difference of opinion May 3, 2005
Tech Tips and Gear Bend to join webbing and rope Apr 21, 2017