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How Do You Use Your SandTrap Tostada?

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Canyonero, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Got into a discussion this week about the proper use of a sandtrap while in TOSTADA (not taco) formation. Do you run the retrieval rope ON TOP of the sand or UNDER the sand and sandtrap?

    Obviously under produces more wear (much more wear) on the sandtrap, but I think it is more likely to pull with less force (and intend to test it soon, once my sandtrap gets repaired :) )

    Over turns the tostada into a taco first before emptying, which I think results in more required force to empty it (and thus less ability to hold more weight while still being pullable from below)

    I'm curious how you do it.
  2. Steve Woodford

    Steve Woodford

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    The retrieval is attached to the underneath top side loop. Run under the Sandtrap and then over the top of the sand. Only way to set it up in Tostada. Here is a video on the Sandwich setup. You can see the setup for a single as well.
  3. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    I like the garden hose in the video.

    Not sure what you mean "under the sandtrap and over the sand." You are describing it being run OVER the sandtrap in my opinion. And that certainly is not "the only way" to rig it in tostada.

    And now that I watch your video, you're using TWO sandtraps for some bizarre reason I can't figure out. Maybe just to keep the weight of the rope off the main sandtrap? Dunno.
  4. Jenny

    Jenny

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    Over the years, we've tried many methods of groove protection for the sawing action of the pull and rap lines. The garden hose was one of those and a good one. BUT!!!!!!! The last person (LPAR) down and the tester(s) often have a very awkward start to the rappel. So awkward to often be dangerous. We've tried leather beneath and running the rope through a piece of fire hose. Again, retrieval can be a challenge. Bootboy (Taylor) has added a tongue to his "Sandtrap" that works great. Perhaps he'll post a photo. This is my personal favorite solution.

    In my opinion (not so humble) it is the subtle and less obvious tweeks in the setup of the sandtrap that really make the difference. The anchor can almost always be set to safely hold any rappeler but ensuring the retrieval is the key to safety as well.

    I love, love, love the anchor.
    Thanks Steve and Maria for the original version. Thanks Tom and Taylor for the refinements.
  5. Steve Woodford

    Steve Woodford

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    Thanks jenny. You had a lot of great input when we first designed the Sandtrap. The garden hose is on the retrieval rope so should not interfere with the last rapper. It is the retrieval rope that causes most grooving with the Sandtrap. Have not yet seen the tongue addition. Sounds interesting.
    Also, I hope you get to try the W'Anchor sometime soon. We all had a say in the original idea. Yours was the first to be made for general use.
  6. Steve Woodford

    Steve Woodford

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    The two Sandtraps are designed to make the pull much easier when doing a long rapel. Too much sand on just one Sandtrap is impossible to retrieve. So the reason is not bizarre. Maybe your lack of critical thinking on the issue is "bizarre"?
  7. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    More likely my limited intellectual ability! Thanks for educating me. I agree that there are times when the sandtrap can be really hard to pull and pulling two sandtraps with half as much sand would be much easier.

    The problem with Bootboy's bib is it only goes 4 or 5 feet in front of the trap. It can't protect a lip 10 feet away. A piece of garden hose could, at least for the retrieval line. It's obviously much easier (and thus more likely) to use solution however.

    I disagree that the retrieval line is the main cause of rope grooving though. Both ropes clearly cause grooving. The rap rope when rappelling (especially on long rappels) and the retrieval rope when, well, retrieving especially a difficult to pull trap.

    I find it interesting that those who designed/make the sandtraps put the pull rope over the pile of sand while most of those who use it put it under!
  8. Steve Woodford

    Steve Woodford

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    I can see some advantage to placing the rope under the sand on the Sandtrap. As for the rapel rope causing the grooving, when using the Sandtrap, you do not have the rap rope going all the way back up to the fixed anchor. So using the Sandtrap does negate the effect of grooving by the rap rope on retrieval...of course, during the descent there is the slight grooving with weight on the rap rope. But the sawing effect of the retrieval rope is what causes most grooving.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  9. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    I don't understand what you are saying by "You do not have the rap rope going all the way back up to the fixed anchor." When I use a sandtrap in tostada mode (or even taco mode), the rap rope is tied to the front of the sandtrap. There is no fixed anchor.
  10. Steve Woodford

    Steve Woodford

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    This is becoming quite funny actually.....think about it... when you pull on a pullrope from a fixed anchor (a ring/bolt whatever), you are creating tension over the edge. This is what cuts into sandstone. But when you pull a retrieval rope on a Sandtrap, there is only a short time of tension on the sandstone edge before the Sandtrap empties. The rap rope attached to the Sandtrap does not cut into the sandstone on retrieval like it does when it has to travel all the way up over the sandstone edge to a fixed anchor....comprende?
  11. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Si, lo entiendo ahora. Me confundi' porque' pensaba que estabas diciendo que el Sandtrap fue una ancla fijada. Gracias por explicarlo otra vez.
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