Today I hiked lower Weehawken Creek trail, in the snow (this is near Ouray, CO, for the uninformed). This was the first winter hilke that I have taken with my new gloves. My first pair of "four season" gloves -- Give'r (cost about 100.00 at REI). Unfortunately, though it was about 30-35 degrees, they did NOT keep my fingers warm. I do have Raynaud's, but even my non-Raynaud's fingers got really cold. All my fingers on both hands were cold, with very little to no feeling. And when I took the gloves off briefly (when I needed the dexterity to push the camera button), since my fingers had no feeling, it was a struggle to get the gloves back on. I try to temper my expectations, but in my opinion, these gloves under performed. The cardboard sleeve that they are sold with says they are good down to -20. Huh? If they are four season, it must be the four seasons of a state like Florida. I need some serious winter gloves. I am not talking about canyoneering, I am simply talking about winter hiking and other things, like, what if I have to change my tire because of a flat? Or when I shovel snow off my driveway. These gloves were fleece lined, but I'm not impressed. I probably need some mountaineering alpine-type gloves, maybe even mitts, because with mitts, the fingers aren't isolated and easier to kept warmer. I probably have to pay around 150.00 for these. Whatever, I feel that people on this forum are gear heads and can help me. Thank you.