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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Southern Canyoneer, Oct 1, 2014.
I can't seem to find any recent beta on it.
May have to go through it site and beta unseen!
Go for it. My understanding is that it really isn't very condition dependent.
Btw, beta doesn't really change. Conditions, however, do
As I dimly recall...some of the anchors were single bolts. Don't be afraid to back them up...!
You do it?
Yes he did, along with Tom Jones and Kip Marshall. Brian, was it 2001 or a little later? September perhaps? I descended it with Greg Hall and Ernie Leo (Recently deceased-sad) and enjoyed it, maybe a year or two after those guys. Jenny West and Mike Bogart descended it in the early 80's and I believe placed the big wall bolts? She told me that they saw some odd anchor...rebar....near the top of the big wall and no other evidence of passage.
Did you go?
No...we were so beat from Kolob the day before we just settled for a quick run through Behunin the next day.
Resurrecting this to ask if anyone has done Corral Hollow (preferably recently-ish, but any information is welcome!) and knows or remembers much about the 800 foot drop to the Narrows near the end of the canyon. Curious whether there are sufficient natural anchors to descend the entire drop in case of bolts being missing or in poor condition. Corral Hollow sounds interesting and pretty this time of year, and I'd love to check it out, but also don't want to commit to completing it without a bolt kit if there aren't natural anchors available at each stage of the long drop. There have been enough rescues in the Zion area this year, and I very much don't want to add to them.
In particular, I'm curious about rappels 7/8 from the description on Canyoneering USA. That's the only part that stands out as possibly not having sufficient natural anchors:
The big drop section starts with a dramatic view 800 feet to The Narrows below.
R5: from tree, 150' (45 m) to another tree on canyon left. Ignore intermediate bolt.
R6: from tree, 200' (60 m) to ledge.
R7: two-stage, low angle (100', 30 m) rappel down slabs and across ledges.
Scramble down ledges and step across (exposed) to a ledge with bolt anchor.
R8: rap 170' (55 m) to regain the canyon floor.
"Availability" of natural anchors largely depends on your skill level and bringing enough webbing. The canyon does not get done much. I have a report from a not-very-backcountry-savvy group that went through in early summer who thought a lot more bolts were required. So, hard to say.
Just "having a bolt kit" is really the least of several requirements to put in bolts well. Knowing how to get solid, long-lasting bolts in the Navajo sandstone is a more important component, and then I would say knowing when and where to put bolts in is the key component.
That all makes sense, and agreed on all points. So it sounds like this group was able to get all the way down to the Narrows, but maybe didn't like the anchors they had to use at some points? Maybe I'll have to do a non-committing scouting trip or two before trying the entire canyon...it's a shame the big drop is near the end with so many rappels before it. Sounds like it would be a lot of work to avoid committing to it.
It has been a long while since I was there. Love to hear details from Bogie or Jenny per their first descent. Anyway I recall there was a hard pull from the webbing Brian, Tom and Kip left high in the tree near the pour-over. There was a bolt on a steepish slab short of the end of the rap. The 2nd rap, we went from a tree, up and left LDC from the end of the first. This rap came in at 198 feet. The third rap seemed to offer many options as one can move along laterally on the ledge. The final rap bolt was harder to find and likely harder to do naturally. A bit intimidating to get to too. The drainage sees little traffic and less frequent floods compared to others all around it. A pretty dusty-dirty slot with fine wilderness quality. I remember the "false floors" at the rap near the Narrows and would imagine it changes there often, but has lots of options. Scouting does not seem practical.
The middle section of the canyon has wide open slab that can quickly be traversed, out of the watercourse. I remember glancing over to the wooded watercourse and it seemed to be pothole after pothole. I have often thought about it since, as I did not have very good skills (or partners ;-)) for pots back then. I wonder what it would be like to go through there now? The scope was smallish and escape out the side easy. Still its a long day doing the bypass of the pots, as is. Maybe a night in there if its rained recently enough to clean out the stagnation. At that middle section would make an exceptional wilderness camp, with one able to have water, shade, large latitude on the slickrock and awesome views down the big wall. In fact, one can see the narrows way, way down below, from that rim. Be a lotta fun, it would
Just to add an interesting bit, I would point out that there should be an escape from the middle of the canyon at the top of the big drop... with the understanding that I *cannot* absolutely claim this for certain since I haven't actually done the entirety of it. If one has Courtney's Zion peaks book there's a route to Imlay Point, which I have done, and Corral Hollow Peak, which I have not. These peaks are accessed using a steep but manageable rubble slope that comes off the West Rim Trail into one of the forks of upper Imlay Canyon. The route for Corral Hollow Peak then traverses over into one of the tributaries of Corral Hollow. Looking at the maps and the imagery there should be no significant obstacles between that point and the top of the big drop if one had to bail, though if you hadn't looked at the route beforehand I can't imagine ever stumbling upon it accidentally as this is pretty deep backcountry navigation stuff. I didn't investigate further when I was out at Imlay Point because it was a pretty hot day and water would have been an issue. Obviously it doesn't do anything for someone who has already started down the big drop, but it's not a bad thing to know for anyone thinking of going down the canyon. The route down the slope to Imlay Point in green, and you can connect the dots to the big drop on the bottom right.
Thanks so much for sharing your memories! Sounds like a great canyon, and a wonderful place to possibly spend a night. I agree scouting from the top would not be a fun way to go...
This is very interesting, thanks! I do not have that book, but it looks like an inspirational read with tons of good information. I'll definitely be buying it soon! If the route you mention is doable, it would make a non-committing trip to check out the big drop much more practical. I'll post back here once I've tried it, and let people know whether it works. Even if it doesn't, it looks like a fun area to go wandering.
AWESOME info Jeremy . I spoke to Courtney and he concurs that this route likely works. My thoughts are this is better as an escape, if you don't like the wall, rather than going in this way, although it would be a blast.
Anna, it seems that the area most in question starts with the third rap of the 4. The first two have sound natural anchors. I respect your caution, but this likely OK to descend. Recruit an anchor person to go with you. Oh and....happy birthday
Thanks!! I actually feel pretty solid with rigging rappels from the standard (i.e. not sand & water anchors, unfortunately haven't met any experts in those yet) natural anchors (one of the advantages of not beginning a canyoneering career with the popular bolted routes). Was just worried about the second and/or third wall rappels ending at tiny, isolated slabby ledges without much in the way of vegetation, rocks, or cracks.
Trying the escape route as a descent is probably an abundance of caution, since it seems someone's been down Corral Hollow just a few months ago. We didn't read about them here, so it must have worked out for them...but the route Jeremy mentioned really does sound fun just as a wander!
That's why you always go with one or two disposable partners. Meat anchor!
Anna, I'm including a link to my photos from my hike to Imlay Point in case you want to get a feel for the route. It is very interesting terrain and definitely inviting for exploration. The only thing I'd add to Courtney's description is that there is an additional short cliff before the rubble slope when coming from the West Rim Trail, one can scramble through it in at least two places or use a more significant break on the north side of it. Would be interesting to see if the route goes.
Creative anchor solution! Now to delete all the incriminating evidence and convince some suckers, I mean, adventurous partners to join, and then not to drop me while I'm abandoning them/scouting for a better way down...
These are super interesting and helpful pictures!! I'm going to see if Facebook will let me save them for future perusal when planning the next trip in the area. Extra kudos for making that hike in the middle of summer...it was hot enough out there last weekend when the breeze wasn't blowing!
October 11th 2015, Bones and I took quite a motley and truly unexperienced crew of couchsurfers through; there were 6 of us total. Bomber anchors at the big wall multi-pitch section in question; the tree's are solid, and had nice easy pulls from them - there were multiple bolts at each bolted station, well equalized. Just bring lots of webbing and you'll be able to troubleshoot anything that may be wrong with either the natural or bolted stations.
@deathtointernet having looked up (north) from the bottom of the canyon, I did see several places that could easily be up'd-and-out'd - they may be brushy and unpleasant, but as far as escapes go, very doable from the top of the multipitch.
@Anna you are right, it is lovely this time of year - much yellow/red, and far from hot. You'll do well to bring people that speak your language though. I'm with @Ram though; caution is a good thing to weigh in this sport, but I think you're good to go. The only thing I would recommend however is once you hit the bottom, when you still have a bit of a walk to Big Springs, don't try to avoid the water - the sides of the bottom are very loose dirt and you risk a dirtslide then a fall; just stay in the bottom and take the puddles/pots as they come - you'll be walking out the Narrows shortly anyway, so no point in trying to stay dry in that final stretch. Oh, and there's a canyonape cave in Corral; try not to agitate them.
Yes, yes, I know, no helmets in the shot. This was before we were enlightened. This canyon, actually, made Bones and I think we should start wearing them - what with its backcountry nature and lots of rocks to kick down on this multi-pitch section.
We had a trip planned through here this year until my accident. It is now been pushed to next spring, I'm good to go now, but we have other plans in the works. Anyone wanting to go with us when we head out is welcome to come go
That sounds like an interesting trip in more ways than one! Very much appreciate your recent trip report and mentioning the condition of the rappel stations I'm still stubbornly wanting to look at the potential escape route in reverse, but mainly because it sounds cool...with your information, maybe will put it off until after visiting the canyon.
Thinking about heading back to Zion one more time this month, and now with a Corral Hollow conditions report from last year, trying to decide between hiking South Guardian and visiting the canyon...both seem like fun fall endeavors. If we end up going with the peak, I may take you up on the canyon in the spring. I remember reading about your injury earlier this year and am happy to hear you're doing better!!