Tech Tip: Answered Extra gear for first decents?

Hey y'all, I have a quick question for those of you that have a lot of experience with canyoning a first descent. Is there any particular piece of gear you find yourself bringing that you would not otherwise bring? Obviously, it heavily depends on what class of canyon, along with its weather, climate, distance and remoteness. For the sake of the argument have you found anything useful when dealing with the unknowns? I typically like to bring aggressive climbing shoes, a small trad rack and I change out my backup rope from a static one to a dynamic one (for exploration, not for the usual canyoning). I'm quite sure the ideal piece of gear is bringing someone that already has plenty of experience, but besides that, any wisdom?

Not "a lot" of first descents but a fair number where little to no info was had.

A gob (maybe 10 to 12) of tied shoulder length slings (or cord). 50 feet of sling (or cord).

A selection of hooks and a bolt kit (hammer included). Hooks were a pair of custom shaped BD cliffhangers that I modified to snug securely in a drilled hole (same size as my drill bit). A selection of pins (shallow angles and baby angles). Set of old nuts. Some rapides and maybe a couple of rap rings.

Given how talented folks have become on not having to resort to the more heavy-handed approach more common in days gone by...some of that gear might not be needed as much...

These days, I'd probably employ a rim crew...ha ha.

Yeah, would really depend on the location. Especially how much could be known about the target canyon.

Might also depend on the purpose of the descent. If the intent was to leave no or little trace, or, to open a canyon for sustained masses. That might make a huge difference in the gear chosen for the descent.

More rope. More people. Talented people. All the anchors-webbing, fiddlestick, water pocket, sandtrap, at least 5 potshots, an etrier and rope ascension kit. That should do it on the Colorado plateau. I used to carry some hooks but never used them so quit carrying them.

Might consider more (bolt kit?) in a different area where ghosting wasn't the norm and there weren't a lot of trees around. There are places in the world where nothing but bolts will work, but they can often be minimized with lots of rope and plenty of talented people.

A rim crew is fairly standard for an exploration likely to go X.

Thank you, much appreciated.

A kitchen sink is nice too. Stainless steel, not the fiberglass or cast-iron type. Hacksaw blades, vise grips 2x , hammer, round files, and high speed drill bits. With all this you can forge any manner of anchors, descending devices, brakes, artificial chock stones, steps, reflectors, leg splints and warning bells … and if you’re really good at improvising, a ham radio, but if you’re not that good you could make an oven and roast the ham.


Don’t leave home without it. Sorry this reply is 23 days late.

more rope...

More rope and sling. Sometimes you might carry 400 feet of rope and find out that you only needed 60, but that's just the name of the game.

Mechanical ascenders.

OP: "I typically like to bring aggressive climbing shoes, a small trad rack and I change out my backup rope from a static one to a dynamic one (for exploration, not for the usual canyoning)."

None of these items would be useful in the canyons I have done. Sounds like you are a climber starting out in canyoneering - good on ya.

Many years ago, Back In The Day, a climber wrote a book about canyoneering that included (almost direct quote): "Always bring a climber's rack, so you can exit the canyon at any point!" Clearly, this climber had not done very many canyons, as was abundantly clear from the rest of his book.

Canyoneering is not climbing.

@Canyon_Cal - Mechanical Ascenders (Petzl Basic + Nano-Traxion) are already in my every-day kit - NOT additional for first descents. I might change them out for handles if we are really just doing a nose-poking-in.

As much as we Utahns have focused on Fiddle-Sticking and Ghosting, I was on a second descent last weekend in Zion where what we really needed was MORE WEBBING! Thankfully, the webbing from the first D a month earlier was still in good shape, even after all this rain. The muddy nature of the canyon woulda made ghosting it even more difficult, but the nature of the canyon was not ghosting friendly. We fiddled off of slings, as did the FD party.

The key is to have some idea of what you are getting into, then add more stuff. Best done by visiting the nearby canyons / canyons with the same geometry. However, Happy Dog and Laughing Baboon would not have set us up for success in Poe. On that first trip, thankfully, we ran out of time.

Tom

Or the Egypts. When we did them in 1992, E4 was a shock after 2 and 3.

"Good on ya." Smacks of a certain tone, eh?

Back when you were, they were. Ha ha. I can think of a number of canyons you descended where significant climbing gear was used for access...and I'm sure the skills you acquired through climbing benefitted you greatly in canyons.

Really depends on the terrain (and the location) one is exploring. If you're accessing new canyons from climbing routes, then...you'll have the climbing gear. And, if the terrain might support climbing gear for anchors...then...yeah, could be pretty useful.

And, if you really don't climb, then, climbing out, up, sideways or even down really won't be much of an option anyhow, so, would limit your gear in that regard. Seems like most canyon folk don't have much in the way of climbing skills or horsepower (gross generalization for sure) or even interest in being able to climb. Limits their mindset when it comes to solutions and gear I'd think. Probably not the persons pushing new routes out anyhow.

Also, if you're developing an area for touristic type descents...your kit could be a lot different. Instead of just surviving a descent. Thinking about all those routes in Morocco that Koen and friends opened. Amazing. And the folks in Albania. Etc.

Tom...how's that Nano-Traxion compare to the micro? I see you can't lock out the cam on the nano? How's the nano for use with a thicker rope, say, 9.5mm? Pulley and sides look a bunch smaller...a little or a lot more friction with a fatter rope? Can't believe those rigs weight just around 50g...pretty neat.

Micro Traxion always in my kit, climbing or canyons. That and some Prusiks. Good times...

I use "Good on Ya" as honest encouragement. Any sarcasm you find in that is entirely inside your skull.

Other than a few oddities, which no one ever does, I know not of what you talk. He did not mention bolts. There are certainly climbing skills, and skills related to climbing, that are useful in canyoneering.

Whatever. Certainly helpful to have a good climber or two along in difficult times. Only times I've seen it / done it / benefited from it, rock shoes, a rack and a dynamic rope were not part of the mix.

And yeah, not being a 5.11 leader sure has limited Ram's new routing... (nyet!)

I've been on Injured Reserve, so have not had the opportunity to use it much... or at all. I am told it is replacing the Micro Trax... which I'm not sure is a good idea. The Micro is small enough. 9.5mm rope??? what is this, the 1800's????

Tom

Yes, that's right - we should have "good" ascenders for every outing. Indeed, the Zion backcountry permit application has a checkbox for this. However, the average canyoneering dude I run onto out there does not have ascenders, let alone practiced in using them. I've heard guys say, "I have a couple prusiks, I'll be able to figure it out if I need to." I think they get away with it most times, but doing a first descent this way seems super sketchy - maybe this goes without saying, but that's where I was coming from.

My logic of a micro-trax, a Basic, and a Tibloc:

Having practiced ascending a bunch of times, with prusiks and ascenders, I found that the best system is a smooth mechanical (trax) on top, and a non-critical backup (tibloc) on the footloop below. When you stand up in the footloop you push the micro trax up high at the same time, then relax and weight the traxion and then the footloop becomes unweighted and you can raise it up at leisure.

The Basic is just really nice (almost a necessity) because you can use it during ascent as a third backup by doubling up the lower ascender. But at the critical point when you reach the lip you can stand up in the footloop, reach over the lip, and clip the Basic on to the rope beyond the lip which is otherwise impossible if you only use two ascenders.

Anyone tried one of these beauties? I have one, but haven't had a chance to work with it yet. Seems like a more tidy way to do what a Purcell Prusic would do. According to Petzl:
PROGRESS ADJUST-I is a single adjustable progression lanyard that, when combined with another lanyard, allows continuous connection for different types of progression (such as rope ascent or moving along a fixed line). Using the ADJUST rope adjuster, the length can be quickly and easily adjusted. Reversible, the ADJUST rope adjuster can be placed on the anchor or on the harness ventral attachment point.

I appreciate everyone’s words of encouragement. I find this community to be quite helpful and among all incredibly humbling. Also, due to that I’m based in Montana, the sport of canyoning is far behind the sport of climbing. Locating and running canyons up here has been an outrageously large learning curve. Nothing has beta (which has made me incredibly careful) and fellow canyoneers are quite full of themselves (at least to take a 20 year old on a trip). Since I posted this I have expanded what I bring in canyons and I can agree that microtraxions are the way to go. I also find myself using petzl ascenders when spotting. While I think that mechanical ascenders are necessary, I find that I rarely have to use them if I’m making smart decisions. While not every decision I make is going to be the best, I generally know when I’m going to end up having to climb a rope. It’s quite often after a sobering experience, but hey sometimes you just have to experience it yourself to learn. As long as it’s not a fatal mistake.

A more "everyday" application for ascenders is helping to pull a stubborn rope, or carefully ascending a stuck rope to get it back down. The later can be dangerous of course, but not if you have access to both ends at the bottom. Ascenders can also be useful when you just want to go in for a brief look at a new canyon, but not necessary descend the whole thing.