Send us a suggestion!

Endless Eden/Lost Eden

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jolly Green, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Jolly Green

    Jolly Green

    Messages:
    201
    Likes:
    310
    Location:
    Farmington, UT
    Just wondering if anyone has any pics of Endless Eden or Lost Eden they wouldn't mind sharing, particularly the pothole you can pendulum over. This is right next door to where we always set up camp. Mostly thinking of doing Endless Eden as it sounds like the "easier" of the two. I have hiked the general area and know where these are, I just want to make sure these aren't on the list of killer Lake Powell canyons you should only do if you have a PhD in bat hooking and X slots.
  2. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702
    Most all of my Eden pictures are from the early 2000's and are in slide form. Sorry. The final drop in Endless changes with lake level, the deposit and scouring of sand, so I would want a lot of rope. Over 300 feet with the lake low? I would check to see there before going. The Main Eden is scary. I have never done it without climbing up to the biggest keeper from the bottom first. It has no hook holes (bad form anyway), it has a long flat area beyond it, the down canyon wall is vertical. It has been known to be 17 feet to water line AND still a swimmer. One of the biggest stoppers in canyon country. It is great fun trying to get up to there from the bottom. If water is low, it can be impossible. Lots of partner assist, but beware......the bedrock is super slippery by a deep little pothole and some of the best canyoneers have taken a trip into it!


    here is what it looks like trying to climb up from the bottom, in fairly high water. Aaron up on the first ledge
    [​IMG]

    Amy climbing up to another ledge

    [​IMG]


    Amy dropping into a keeper
    [​IMG]

    The climb out the other side of that keeper. It is a swimmer at the edge shown. All methods failed until with my feet on the wall and people swimming into my shoulders keeping me there, I tossed my helmet two thirds of the way up the drop and it stuck. Thirteen year old Aaron did the climb out

    [​IMG]

    Randi, Roy and Judy stemming up toward the keeper
    [​IMG]

    Roy at the keeper which is 8 feet down. She dropped in and made the effort. Only when we secured the rope was she able to escape

    [​IMG]
    Kevin, Nick, roylnn and 2 others like this.
  3. ratagonia

    ratagonia

    Messages:
    5,429
    Likes:
    6,716
    Location:
    Mount Carmel, Utah
    Hi Jolly -

    I have done both canyons and can translate a bit of what Ram said.

    Endless Eden the northern of the two is pretty straightforward. BIG rappel at the end when the lake is low like it is now - as in, over 300' I think. Anchor might require a LOT of webbing. Stacked SandTraps would probably work too.

    Lost Eden has one of the scariest potholes around. It is deep and long, with a big flat mudflat past it. Ram recommends climbing up to it from below (no easy task) and at least looking at it, perhaps fixing a rope to escape from it later in the day. Which can also prove problematic. We had the benefit of doing it on a FEST, where it was presented as a challenge. After throwing 8 objects, we were able to get ourselves out. The key here is to bring enough rope and throwable things to be able to get 8 things out there. There were other challenges in the canyon as well, but nothing of that caliber.

    Good luck.

    Tom
    Deagol, Scott Patterson and hank moon like this.
  4. Jolly Green

    Jolly Green

    Messages:
    201
    Likes:
    310
    Location:
    Farmington, UT
    Big time thanks for the input guys. Love the pics. I knew that last pothole was a beast but it sounds tougher than expected. I heard they are expecting the lake levels to be the lowest in 9 years, so we'll have to see if the approach is even feasible this year. Sounds like I might have to give the 330 foot rope a workout in Endless and save Lost for another day.
  5. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702
    I have not seen, but heard there is a small but secure arch, out on the right, looking down canyon, by the final drop. It may be up a small level and may not be obvious, but I saw webbing from below once. The pool being low won't effect the potholes above. They will be high or low based on their own realities...recent rain, the nature of the bottom of the pots etc. When the reservoir is over 120 feet down (now 99 feet down and will only drop a few more this season before rising again) a tough spot emerges. A slick, tight spot, with vertical walls, that angles slightly overhung on both sides. This spot is very physical. The problems above, just take ingenuity and time if you can succeed and no real commitment, because you can just reverse out if they prove too difficult. The pictures were taken in June 2004
    Scott Patterson likes this.
  6. Brian

    Brian Vaporman

    Messages:
    5
    Likes:
    2
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Sounds like some sweet canyons! Thanks for the beta. :thumbsup: One quick question, is there any 'crazy' R+/X stemming to worry about in the main Lost Eden canyon. I was recently scouting it from above and all I really saw was this long narrow deep crack and I couldn't tell if it involved sustained stemming or just a narrow canyon with a walkable floor... Thanks.
  7. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702
    See post #3 by Tom above. There is also several pots, in both canyons, that have scary bypasses that can't be protected and will be R in average water and X-ish in low water
    Vaporman likes this.
  8. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes:
    1,377
    There is some high stemming in the upper canyon, but I don't know if Ram and Tom did this part? I haven't seen them mention it and I think they skipped this part? it's a long way to the lake.

    Our trip was before Tom's and Ram's trips, so their trip was a lot harder than ours since when we visited, the canyon was massively bolted up. They were removed before Tom and Ram went through. We also turned back at the big pothole (we didn't have a boat shuttle).

    Anyway, there is an approach that should work in low water levels, but you have to do a boat shuttle to do it, or retreat back up canyon.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    Vaporman and Ram like this.
  9. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702
    I have done the upper high stemming, on 2 occasions. While a bit up there, I found it to be moderate, without gapers or silos. The lower, what might be called low stemming, was awkward and physical, but safe. The quality of "movement" matters more to me, with the passing years. All drops had consequences and I had NO idea that the canyon had ever been bolted. INTERESTING! I have a guess on who unbolted it though.

    I was there in 2003 the first time and except for the boater Gringo moki's, down low, the place felt pristine. Now I suspect that a closer inspection would reveal "patch works" on some of the walls. Still, so many of the challenges were horizontal, I don't see how bolts could make the place safer. Truth be told, in spite of some interesting problems, the canyons are quite shallow and I have not been there in a long time, nor do I have plans to return.
  10. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes:
    1,377
    I found out it had been unbolted because years ago Steve Brezovec heard I had been in there with Kesley and asked me about the canyon. I said that it was all bolted up and Steve said that he found no traces of bolts. He said that whoever removed the bolts did a good job because everything was invisible.

    I know who unbolted it since someone with the initials JW (I actually asked him about the bot removal) that SA and crew unbolted it in the year 2002 after I had mentioned being in there when I first joined the canyons group.

    Also, JW mentions an old trip report on the canyon, but didn't mention its name (make sure to read both posts):

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CANYONS/conversations/topics/9231

    This report is from Lost Eden, but I believe that the size of the pothole is exaggerated.

    Anyway, I believe it was September 2000 or 2001 that I was in there with Kelsey. It was for his Lake Powell book, 4th edition, but in the end he decided that the canyons were too hard for boaters and that they wouldn't be interested.

    The only thing mentioned in his books is the following:

    When the lake is really low, there are a couple of nice slots with big potholes. The north fork and middle fork both have some swimming and rappels.

    That is all he ever wrote up on the canyon.

    We came down from above, but only made it to the big pothole leaving several ropes behind. I actually burned my hand badly on one of the ropes since we were batman-ing up some of them rather than using ascenders. We also went down Lost Eden quite a ways, but I don't remember how far. We didn't have a boat shuttle and came from a different direction than the canyon mouth, so we did the canyons top down and then back out.

    Anyway, this is also the canyon that I told you a story once, but while Mike and I were out exploring the canyons, boats were zooming up and down the Lost Eden channel at a high rate of speed and making big waves. By the time we got back to the boat it was flooded and Mike's notes were floating in the water.

    There were actually a lot of them in there, several per pothole and traverse.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    Ram and Vaporman like this.
  11. Vaporman

    Vaporman

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    Wow, interesting to hear that it used to be bolted. Yea, based on my observations I was afraid it was full of stemming... Doesn't sounds super crazy though. I didn't see any midway exits in my scouting, though the 90* heat was getting to me and I turned back before making it to the head of the canyon. If I ever check it out, might have to drop some escape ropes for when I'm done and want a break...lol
  12. stefan

    stefan wandering utahn

    Messages:
    53
    Likes:
    84
    for those without access to that link, the two posts can be found in the archive here:

    http://canyoncollective.com/threads/ex-sqeeze-me-getting-invasive-in-po-tholes.3406/#post-1

    http://canyoncollective.com/threads/allens-30-foot-pothole.3407/#post-10433
    Ram, Jenny and Vaporman like this.
  13. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702

    Multiple bolts to pass many individual potholes!?!? Would love to know where they were and how many. This is not like the Pit in Poe, which used 2, 40 feet above the water and still required great athleticism. Glad it got cleaned up. Wonder who put them in and how long ago? I also wonder whether it was illegal back then, as it is now?
  14. Ram

    Ram

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes:
    4,702
    Yes I recall the tale. One of the classic stories. Memorial weekend, was it not?
  15. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes:
    1,377
    They looked fairly new when we were in there, but I don't know how old they were. They were similarly to the bolts in Bishop, so maybe same crew?

    Labor Day weekend.
    Ram likes this.
  16. winchestertonfield

    winchestertonfield

    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    1
    I'm not sure if this is the place I'm supposed to be asking about beta, but I guess I'll try on this old thread.

    I'm interested in the upper reaches of the Eden canyons coming down the Waterpocket. Are there any published trip reports and CC members could point me toward. If anybody has insight in to the area that would be greatly appreciated. Specifically I'm looking at the drainages from North Annies north. There appear to be some interesting canyons in the fold over an appox 6 mile stretch, several dropping approx 400" over a distance of 1500'. Are there names for these canyons or this area? There are a couple long shallow canyon/drainages I'm looking at as well, the two shallow ones south of Lost Eden, and the two upper sections of the 1st and 2nd side canyons off of Lost Creek canyon.

    I'm in the planning stages of a trip to the bench area between Stevens Canyon and the Colorado. Yes I know Steve Allen says "to explore the whole area takes fifteen to twenty days". Thanks in advance - Josh G
  17. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes:
    1,377
    I expored the upper forks of Lost Eden with Mike Kelsey about 20 years ago. There was a bit of stemming in the slots, but we didn't use ropes. Some of the slots were bypasable as well. Mike Kesley didn't put them in his book because he decided later that his target audience for the Lake Powell book wouldn't be as interested in tech canyons, especially if they weren't next to the lake.

    The upper forks aren't seen much since people who do do the Lost Edens do the lower end. The upper ends are nice and one of them had a really scenic headwall.

    I haven't done those other canyons, but I know that North Annies is highly technical.
    winchestertonfield likes this.
  18. winchestertonfield

    winchestertonfield

    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    1
    Scott, thanks for the input. Its nice to have even just a couple sentences to go off of. The headwall and bench at the upper Edens looks very interesting from sat images. Some of those drainages appear to be a lot more technical than others. I'm thinking it would might be possible to descend some and ascend others. A bit of a canyon hopping chose your own adventure.

    I might stay away from North Annie this trip but it does look enticing. I'd be curious if there is an escape route before the rappel to the lake.

    I might have to pick up the Kelsey Lake Powell Book , I haven't explored the lake much (no boat). I'm guessing you recommend it? Do you still do trips with Mr. Kelsey? Is he still getting after it? What a legend.
  19. cjhaines

    cjhaines Chris

    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    47
    Location:
    Orem, UT
    To you last comment about N. Fork Annies, there's no escape before the lake, unless you managed to upclimb what I'm going to call the South Fork of North Fork Annies, which having descended I don't really think is possible. But then you'd miss out on some awesome high stemming anyway.
    winchestertonfield likes this.
  20. Bootboy

    Bootboy Atwood Gear

    Messages:
    1,732
    Likes:
    2,104
    Location:
    Utah
    PM sent
Similar Threads: Endless Eden/Lost
Forum Title Date
Trip Reports Endless Eden 6/17/2013 Jun 22, 2013