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Tech Tip: Question Draining good hiking shoes

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Mountaineer, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Well, after this weekend my wife has 4 blisters and another lost toenail. She has the SAR version, so need to swap it out. The SAR version of the five ten canyoneer seems to be harder on your feet than the canyoneer 2, but both have the flaw of not being great hikers.

    I recently starting trying the camp four, as I love the five ten brand stealth rubber, and I must say it is a better hiker than the canyoneer 2. But it lacks what the canyoneer 2 doesn't: keeping all the pebbles out, sturdier/tougher, and with a neoprene sock is the best for water. Camp four shoes suck in the water (no pun intended).

    Why can't five ten take their camp four style shoe, modify it a bit over the ankle like the canyoneer 2 (to reduce sand/rocks from coming in), and put drain holes in? Seems that would make a perfect shoe: for both hiking and canyoneering.

    I remember bootboy had some ideas on using a hot nail, or something, to put drain holes in. How did you go about this exactly? Where did you put the holes, and didn't that degrade the life of your shoes? Does it work?

    So I'm seeking alternatives/modifications, if there are any, to all the advantages of the canyoneer 2.
  2. Tayres

    Tayres

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    As for keeping pebbles out...I often hike with an ankle gaiter to reduce debris getting in my shoes. Makes socks last longer too since less holes are created from the increased abrasion with small pebbles that I procrastinate to shake out.
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  3. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    Drain holes are perhaps good marketing, but they offer no demonstrable practical advantage, eh? Most drainage happens by water being forced out around the ankle. And...unless you are hiking in pretty shallow water, your feet are underwater most of the time anyway.
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  4. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    My Canyoneer2 shoes don't slosh my feet around and get heavier once I come out of the water. Very nice.
  5. Mike Rogers

    Mike Rogers

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    I really like the Camp Fours. However, being leather, the Camp Fours absorb water and get heavier. Adding nail-sized drainage holes gives tiny pebbles and sand a new way to enter--I don't think I'd go that route.

    Since the Five Tens seem to fit, you might also try something like the Savants. The mess upper drains and dries fast. Very comfortable, although I do find the sole a bit too squishy--an even worse edger than the Camp Fours or Canyoneers. The mess upppers aren't very durable. Mine always fail where the mesh meets the toe cap--although I've started using a bit of shoe goo reinforcement before this happens and it extends the life considerably.

    Wearing neoprene socks with either the Camp Fours or Savants works great. I've found that the neoprene all creates a better pebble "seal" that the wool socks I generally hike in. On long approaches you have the benefit of a hybrid system by sock swapping.

    Since we're dreaming, I'd like the Camp Four sole with the mesh upper and synthetic reinforcement...
  6. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Hi Mike, thanks for the input. Good info, and resonates with what I've found. However, the Savant may be worth considering, or even going up a half a size and moving away from the SAR to the Canyoneer2.

    Really like the idea of the neoprene with the Camp Four...hmmm...if it will all fit in there. ;-)

    I will say that using a thick piece of wool socks (over a thin nylon sock) has worked the best on the approach for me. I then switch to neoprene for the canyon, then switch back before the return.
  7. MrAdam

    MrAdam

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    5.10 stopped making the Savant last year unfortunately. I have tried the Camp Fours, Insights and Trailwinds from 5.10 to replace the Savants, Canyoneers are not an option for me.

    The Insights are the same shoe as the Savant, only they are leather instead of mesh and last much longer, although I aquaseal the crap out of all the exposed stitching prior to wearing them.

    The Trailwinds are marketed as an amphibious trail running shoe. They drain well, but they have a different sole than the other 5.10 shoes and it is not as sticky as the other shoes. Also, they do not hold up well in the canyons, the mesh and stitching ripped even after I aquasealed them.

    The Camp Fours were my favorite out of the 3 shoes, but after about 9 months of getting wet and drying, the leather has become stiff and created a pressure point behind my toes.

    The search for the perfect canyon shoe continues........
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  8. Mike Rogers

    Mike Rogers

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    There is still some Savant inventory out there. The Insights didn't fit me as well for some reason (seemed narrower, and that may be a plus for some since many complain 5-10s are too wide.

    I'm intrigued by the Dome--I like the direction they've taken with the uppers, but not necessarily the cushy looking sole--but I've got some of my own inventory to wear out before I have to worry about it.
  9. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    The SAR is a completely different shoe than the regular Canyoneer, so I advise against thinking they are pretty much the same. What makes the Canyoneer work (for some people) is that it is generally a soft shoe. When they built the SAR, they put some hard places in the soft shoe - and it is a total mismatch.

    If your wife lost her big toenail, it means that the shoe was too short.

    I am a big fan of the Canyoneer, and use them for everything. They work for me because I have wide feet and have figured out how to use them. So, my advocation is:

    - Get the next size up in the regular canyoneer.
    - replace the foot bed with a substantial supportive footbed that fits the foot well,
    - add wool socks (at LEAST two) until the fit is good.

    Tom
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  10. Amanda

    Amanda

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    I agree with Tom. I have heard people complain about their toes in the Canyoneers. Solution? Go up a half size. Of course your toes are gonna hurt if you cram them against a hard shoe. When I bought mine I fitted them to feel a little loose/sloshy with a normal pair of cotton socks. When I combine them with 5mm neoprene or thick wool socks, the sock takes up that extra room to fill the shoe nicely and my toes are happy. Even after long sessions of boulder hopping/jumping/general toe mushing activity I've had no comfort issues with the Canyoneer 2s.
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  11. Phillip Mills

    Phillip Mills Canyon Magazine

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    I also have the Canyoneer SAR and found that I have broken toenails or have very sore feet after long treks with them. I wear mine with 3mm neoprene socks. I have also a set of FiveTen Exum Guides which have prove to be a very nice shoe for the walk ins and walk outs but like the Camp Four they do soak up a lot of water making them heavy.

    Have you managed to have a look at the Bestard Canyon Guides? They're next on my list to get very soon and I much prefer laces on shoes as I can never get the Canyoneers to fit my foot correctly with the buckles. They also come in male and female versions:

    Mens Version: http://www.bestard.com/ficha_bota.php?id_bota=465
    Womems Version : http://www.bestard.com/ficha_bota.php?id_bota=615

    And here's a good review of them here: http://fatcanyoners.org/bush-guide/bestard-canyon-guide/#comment-6073

    Phil.
  12. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    These look really nice! :thumbsup: Has some possible benefits over the Canyoneer 2. Thanks for sharing the links. I wonder how the sole performs as compared to the 5.10 Stealth? And how comfortable for hiking the approach: aka all the non-technical water stuff?

    May be worth considering buy & try. Hmmm.....
  13. Ram

    Ram

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    Clipping toenails close and short helps me a lot, in keeping the nails.
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  14. gajslk

    gajslk

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    That makes it easy for athlete's foot fungus to get under your nails. That's unpleasant and unsightly. It can also cause your nails to go all potato chip shaped, which can cause other problems. Much better to get shoes that are long enough.

    Gordon
  15. Ram

    Ram

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    Is that what happened to my toenails!? Ummm. When the nails were long, I would get hot spots, but with wet feet all day, it led to the tissue under the nails getting very soft and the nail then raising and settling like a lever, during the day and eventually loosening and coming off. But what you describe is what happened to my nails eventually (took many years and days out). YUCK! What other problems can develop? BTW, moving away from full time neo sock use helped too.
  16. gajslk

    gajslk

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    Beats me, I'm still in the fungus stage. It's gotten a lot better now, as I seldom wear shoes other than sandals. I'll often do approach hikes either barefoot or in thin sandals and then put on closed toed shoes for the canyon. Dry air and sunlight both seem to help.

    Gordon
  17. Ram

    Ram

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    Thanks for the insights. I do recall years back a fellow doing Engelstead in sandals had a rock roll on his foot. Took off his big toe right on the spot, if I remember correctly. I see open footwear and I cringe
  18. gajslk

    gajslk

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    The shoes I do wear would keep my toe from getting lost in that scenario, but that's about it. Steel toed shoes are right out when I'm trying to have fun ...

    Gordon
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