Well, after this weekend my wife has 4 blisters and another lost toenail. She has the SAR version, so need to swap it out. The SAR version of the five ten canyoneer seems to be harder on your feet than the canyoneer 2, but both have the flaw of not being great hikers. I recently starting trying the camp four, as I love the five ten brand stealth rubber, and I must say it is a better hiker than the canyoneer 2. But it lacks what the canyoneer 2 doesn't: keeping all the pebbles out, sturdier/tougher, and with a neoprene sock is the best for water. Camp four shoes suck in the water (no pun intended). Why can't five ten take their camp four style shoe, modify it a bit over the ankle like the canyoneer 2 (to reduce sand/rocks from coming in), and put drain holes in? Seems that would make a perfect shoe: for both hiking and canyoneering. I remember bootboy had some ideas on using a hot nail, or something, to put drain holes in. How did you go about this exactly? Where did you put the holes, and didn't that degrade the life of your shoes? Does it work? So I'm seeking alternatives/modifications, if there are any, to all the advantages of the canyoneer 2.