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Custodianeering

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hank moon, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. sam.londres

    sam.londres

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    This is a copy and paste from a Facebook Group the poster was a Kurt Williams:

    If you've been on this page or within the narrows over the last week, I'm sure you've seen my rope hanging from Not Imlay in all it's shame. Here is a breakdown of how it got there and our future plans to retrieve it.

    On 9/16, our group attempted to run Imlay canyon via the sneak route. We parked at the grotto and stared just before 5am. By 8am, we had reached the right side sneak route and began descending into what we thought was the crossroads. After climbing down the downed tree, we came to a fork in the road. Left followed the drainage and right followed a climbers trail over the canyon ridge and reconnected into the drainage further down trail. We had a map of the route but did not have the route description. Looking at the map, we thought we were further up the Sneak Route trail and that the fork in the trail was the cleanly marked on the map...it was not.

    After suiting up, we traveled down the drainage until we reached the large open area. This is where we started to second guess ourselves and in hindsight, should have turned around. We checked the map again and were reassured we were in the right location, we weren't. "Perhaps there was one more rap before the trash compactor?" "That narrow section down below must be it." By this time, our wetsuits had become drenched with sweat and we started to overheat. We couldn't wait to climb into the cold trash compactor to cool off. It was the combination of hopeful rash thinking, false confidence with our map, and blind ambition that led us down the first rap which inevitability committed us to the route.

    I've read about not imlay on ropewiki but couldn't remember all the details of its description and exact location. Once we got down to the final rap, and we knew we didn't have enough rope to retrieve. Our main objective was to get everyone safely to the ground. Getting the rope would be our second priority.

    We carried 2 60m ropes and a 100ft rope plus another 100 ft of webbing. We decided on rapping with our two 60s and using my rescue figure 8 to pass the knot. We used two hollow blocks to protect above and below the knot. We placed one hollow block below the knot before lowering the rope so it would be a simple clip in when we arrived during the rappel. Before we made our final rap, we set up a practice system on the tree above the last drop until everyone was familiar with the moves. We must have ran through the sequence 100 times, testing any possible scenario that could go wrong. I also carried a ropeman ascending devices & third hollow block as backup. After we all made it down, we cut the line so no one would climb up and began planning our retrieval process.

    On 9/17 we started looking around town for a 300ft rope but our plans were quickly changed with the forecast of rain the next day. (One of our group also had a 3pm flight out of vegas on 9/18, making the only salvage option to be a very early am trip). Since time was not on our side, and no rope was worth risking a thunderstorm, we canceled our second trip and began planning to return a few weeks later. I eye sore of a hanging rope would have to wait.

    I've spoken with the parks service and am planning to return on Oct 15th. My biggest headache now is the possibility of a goverment shutdown on oct 15th limiting our access for the salvage mission. If anyone in the area is able to help me out before then, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Hopefully by reading this, people will learn from my mistake and not take that first right after coming down from the right side sneak. Not Imlay is a fantastic canyon for a group with the proper equipment. Beautiful views, fun down climbing narrow section, and epic final rap all in view of hundreds of narrow day hikers.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
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  2. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Location:
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    Behunin Canyon Zion - 10-24-2021

    Willie Hunt ran through Behunin and removed the chains rigging Rappel 4 (which have been tearing up the rock for about 10 years, since I installed them). Here is the before and after... Thanks Willie!

    BehuninChainAnchor1.

    BehuninChainAnchorNot2.
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  3. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    Good Day Jim yesterday. There was actually a lot more than this, but I already threw the rest away since the rest didn't have any salvageable rings or quick links.

    trash 2.JPG
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  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Last rappel in Behunin, the "old" rappel anchor, now used as a safety for rigging the more exposed "new" rappel anchor.

    First descent of Behunin may have been this report from 1974... some of the bolts shown here were put in some time after that...

    3 old bolts plus 1 new bolt (probably mine, circa 2004) - but required cutting 6 rapid links to remove the chains. People did not like my 6mm rapid links and added large ones after I installed the chains (circa 2006?).

    No picture of the completed work as it was dark by then.

    Behu98.

    Behu99.
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  5. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Hacksaw easier than using a wrench on the rapides? Or, were they that tight?

    Mighta been easier and faster to just take off the hangers? Or take a bolt cutter?

    What'd you replace the chain with?

    Hopefully didn't leave that stardryvin and the leeper? Ugh.

    Dark...don't most cameras have flashes? Ha ha.

    Is the new anchor still webbing?
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Tools I had: Hacksaw, vicegrips. Shoulda brought a big Screwdriver too. All the rapides were frozen shut... with better tools I might have gotten one or two.

    Maybe shoulda just opened the bolt hangers. Maybe shoulda tried to remove the bolts. But I left them all.

    There is a strand of webbing from the good bolt (lower bolt) to the top bolt on the new anchor, as a safety clip point for reaching the new anchor.

    More work will take place here in the future, including removing bolts, and replacing the 15 year old (or so) 1/2" Powerbolts with glue-ins.

    A different set of tools is required for these tasks. Also useful would be more daylight.

    My camera has a flash, but really, I just wanted to get outta Dodge. As it was, the last bus waited about 10 minutes for us to hop on board at the Lodge. That trail back to the lodge sure is long when you just saw the 'last bus' pull up... thankfully, two peeps from our party ran ahead and were able to hold it.

    Tom
  7. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Yeah, beats spending the night in the bathroom...(!)

    Someone should sneak a cordless angle grinder into your pack...(I have a 20V DeWalt...amazing how fast it can cut metal...). You guys should really get a waiver to be able to use power tools for maintenance...

    Thanks for the work!
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  8. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Tyler and Tyler are both on SAR - THEY could probably get a limited waiver. They are ASCA trained.

    Tom
  9. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Music canyon yesterday, 11/6/2021.

    junk.
  10. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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  11. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    After the confusion over the RT Hanger in Pine Creek, I've come to the realization it might be helpful to share (in this case retroactively) some of the hardware replacement work we've been performing in Zion here on the Collective as well. I'll let the other Tyler (Goodfellow) speak to the projects he's performed or taken the lead on (Johnson Arch, Upper Orderville, Boundary, etc.). Most of these are cut and pasted from Facebook posts so some of past time expressions may be a little weird (i.e. using words like yesterday).

    Here goes...

    Cheers,

    Tyler Miller
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  12. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    5/30/21: Icebox Canyon (Zion) with Cassy Brown and Dave Buckingham
    Dropped Icebox yesterday via the Slickrock Pass entrance. Was warned about a bad bolt (hangerless Rawl Stardrive that was partially pulled) so brought a small kit to pull star drives and a hand drill kit.
    There is a single bolt to rig a hand line to access the 1st anchor on the head wall which appeared to be in good condition.
    The three head wall raps did not appear to have been used for quite some time as all webbing was bleached pure white and a number of pieces disintegrated in hand from UV damage. All three stations were replaced with fresh webbing. Hardware is a mix of 5/16” split shaft bolts with SMC hangers and drilled angle pitons, all stations have 3-4 fixed pieces.
    Rap 1 (Diagonal Traverse): Anchored from two bolts. One is a good stainless stud bolt. The other was a 3/8” Powers 5 piece that looked reasonably new. This was approximately an inch out of the rock (Photo 1). I assumed the bolt had just been under torqued and started to pull from the leverage of the hanger. Upon attempting to hammer the bolt deeper and re-torque to spec I realized the hole was under drilled and the bolt had dead-ended in the back. I literally pulled the bolt by hand, the sleeve of the bolt and compression washer showed no evidence of ever being compressed or tightened (Photo 2). The only thing holding this bolt in the rock was the friction of the sleeve and camming leverage on the bolt, it was a literal time bomb that could easily have pulled under body weight. I re-drilled the hole to 1/2” and replaced with a Hilti bolt (Photo 3).
    This really highlights the fact that bolt installation should only be attempted by those that actually know what they are doing. This hole was under drilled by about an inch and half, the hole was crooked, and the bolt was never tightened - it was a thoroughly botched install and major safety risk, the single bolt alone would have been significantly safer (no extension or shock loading potential). If you do botch an install at least pull or red flag the hanger to avoid putting others lives at risk. I was able to salvage the old hole and install a solid bolt. Keep an eye out - the newest looking bolt in this canyon was the death trap.
    Rap 2 (Chockstone): This is the rap that was previously anchored from the bad hangerless bolt. The anchor is now off of a solid chockstone, the down climb to weight the anchor is very reasonable. Given the solid natural anchor option I did not replace the bolt, which appears to be gone (but I may have missed it), hopefully pulled intentionally and not by accident.
    Rap 3 (Ledge Traverse): This was anchored by a really manky old lead sleeve drop-in bolt with a homemade steel strap hanger (Photo 4). I went back and forth on wether to replace this given the presence of a solid tree 30 feet back. However I eventually decided to replace with a 1/2” Hilti (Photo 5). My logic was that since the old bolt was there and well documented in beta sources people were going to continue to use it, regardless of its condition and other anchor options, so it should be a safe solid modern bolt. I did move the station a bit to create a bit more secure access, and locate the bolt in a sheltered location under a small roof to protect from rock fall and reduce visual impact by hiding it in shadow. I didn’t bring the right kit to pull a drop-in so the old bolt is still in place for now.

    *This one holds a lot of meaning to me as it was the last canyon Cassy and I did together.

    Icebox (Zion) 1. Icebox (Zion) 2. Icebox (Zion) 3. Icebox (Zion) 4. Icebox (Zion) 5. IMG_4607.JPG
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
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  13. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    6/28/21: Pine Creek (Zion) Solo

    Golden Cathedral Rappel:
    A few days ago a party reported that one of the Petzl Collinox glue-ins on this rappel was spinning in the hole. I found about a 1/4 turn worth of movement. I was easily able to spin to a full turn and then pull using a funkness device. A bit disconcerting how easy the removal was, this highlights why I’m not a huge fan of the glass capsule style glues, it’s super hard to get the glue properly mixed in the hole and they’re generally just polyester resins to begin with that are relatively weak and don’t age particularly well. I re-drilled the existing hole to 1/2” and glued in a stainless WaveBolt with A7+. I waited while the glue fully cured and it’s now safe and good to go.

    2nd to Last Rap:
    I tried to pull the super corroded sleeve bolt (appears to be an old Red Head or similar) with the SMC (RT) hanger. The threads sheared when I tried to remove the nut. When originally installed the hole was under drilled and it was impossible to get the cone to release as it dead-ended in the hole. This prevented me from being able to tap threads into the sleeve and use a Hurley Jr. puller. I hit it with all the trickery I could but was unable to get it out, it’s just super corroded and manky. This was a pretty frustrating one for me, had I been able to use a electric hammer drill with a diamond core bit I could have salvaged the existing hole, but given the hand drilling limitations there wasn’t much I could do. It’s been a minute since I’ve been unable to re-use an existing hole and I don’t feel great about it from a stewardship perspective. But I did the best I could with the limitations in place. I was running low on time and couldn’t babysit the glue so I installed an easy to remove 1/2” mechanical in an over drilled (depth) hole next to the existing stud bolt (which should also get replaced at some point) so it’s prepped for a glue-in down the road.

    Pine Creek (Zion) 2. Pine Creek (Zion) 3. Pine Creek (Zion) 4. Pine Creek (Zion) 5. Pine Creek (Zion) 6. Pine Creek (Zion) 7.

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  14. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    7/8/2021: Pine Creek (Zion) with Tom Jones and Tyler Goodfellow

    We pulled and replaced the flashed out and corroded bolts on Rappel 1 (not the SAR bolts) with 6mm stainless steel Bolt Products Twist Leg glue-ins. We were able to extract the corroded 3/8” Power Bolts and re-use both of the existing holes.

    We also added a new bolted rappel station to the 2nd tier of Rappel 1 (now Rappel 2) to help mitigate developing rope grooves from pulling ropes around the corner and clean up the rope pull issues. This station is set high on a somewhat protected ledge to hopefully protect the bolts from flood debris. It’s composed of two 1/2” stainless steel WaveBolt glue-ins. Given the popularity of Pine Creek the addition of these new bolts will hopefully protect the canyon from further damage and preserve the resource for future generations.

    Pine Creek (Zion) 8. Pine Creek (Zion) 9. Pine Creek (Zion) 10. Pine Creek (Zion) 11.
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  15. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    4/27/2022: Telephone Canyon (Zion) with Nick Goold and Steve Carnahan

    We put in a huge day and replaced all of the bolts in the canyon with stainless steel WaveBolt glue-ins. We were able to re-use most of the original holes. We relocated the last (notoriously high) anchor to a more easily accessed location. I also added a bolt to help mitigate some significant developing rope groves. We did not wait for the glue to cure (I collected test samples from each station which cured properly) and utilized natural anchors so we did not add any webbing (I did not want to shift the bolts around in the uncured glue) but I have a group of friends who are running through today to add webbing to each station.

    Here is a summary of the anchor replacement work we performed:

    R2: This is a ~20 foot rappel from a single bolt (2 piece sleeve bolt with a Climbtech Hanger), the original bolt was removed and replaced with a stainless steel glue-in. I also installed a stainless steel quicklink and stainless steel rap ring. The original hole was re-used for the replacement bolt.
    R3: This was a 3 bolt anchor with a 4th empty bolt hole. The original hardware was a aluminum "Lucky" caving hanger on an extremely short sleeve bolt, a short Petzl Long-Life, and a plated steel Metolius Hanger with a 5 Piece plated steel Power Bolt. Petzl Long-Life's are an extremely poor choice of bolt in soft sandstone and this particular one would pull out over half way by hand (it's been that way for at least 3 years). I pulled all three of these bolts and added 2 stainless Wavebolts in the holes originally occupied by the Lucky and Metolius bolts. I patched the empty hole and the hole for the Petzl bolt.

    R4- This was a 2 bolt station with a 1/2" plated steel Powerbolt with a stainless Metolius Hanger and a 3/8" Powerbolt with an old school rivet hanger (similar to Pika hangers but appears even older). We found it rigged with an American Death Triangle. The 1/2" bolt was a case of mixed metals (stainless hanger on a plated steel bolt) and had extreme galvanic corrosion. The bolt was so badly rusted that it adhered to the surrounding sandstone and when I pulled it some of the rock matrix around it blew out. Unfortunately this hole was not salvageable. I patched the hole and added a new hole farther right of the 3/8 inch bolt. I was able to salvage the hole originally occupied by the 3/8 bolt. 2 new stainless Wavebolts were added.

    R6: This was a two bolt station with two of the old school (Pika-esque) rivet hangers and plated steel 3/8 inch Power Bolts. The original bolts were not properly spaced and placed within 6 inches of each other. One was also placed incorrectly with the expansion sleeve installed backwards (this one was partially sticking out). I re-used one of the original holes and patched the other. I added a new bolt with better spacing.

    R7: This was previously a large log set well back from the edge and had significant developing rope grooves in multiple places. There really weren't any feasible natural anchor options closer to the edge (unfavorable geometry) and it would have been a very long ~20+ foot webbing extension to try to mitigate grooves from the existing anchor. This was a case where I felt a bolt was merited for the purposes of preventing further damage to the rock. I added a single WaveBolt. I only brought a single rap ring but my friends will adding one on their way through.

    R13: This was a 2 bolt anchor with Fixe Hangers and Power Bolts. This was the notoriously high anchor, where a chockstone had shifted and the anchor was now ~15 feet off the ground at the cliff edge making access and webbing replacement extremely difficult. The hardware used was also all plated steel. The old hardware was removed and the holes patched. I relocated the new anchor to an easy to access location at the edge (around shoulder height) that still facilitates a clean rope pull.

    Telephone (Zion) 1. Telephone (Zion) 2. Telephone (Zion) 3. Telephone (Zion) 4. Telephone (Zion) 5. Telephone (Zion) 6. Telephone (Zion) 7. Telephone (Zion) 8.
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  16. GoClimbARock

    GoClimbARock

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    I've asked and it's currently not possible. In the future there is some potential. It would certainly facilitate cleaner and more sustainable same hole replacement. For example stud bolts are fairly easy to extract when spun with a power drill (to compromise the cone). Very difficult to remove by hand without spinning first. Core drilling also becomes an option (drilling around the bolt with a coring bit). Not to mention cordless grinding or dremels.

    There is also a convincing case to be made from a wildlife impact perspective as well. The decibel peak of a power drill is lower than a striking a hand drill with a hammer. It's also less sustained, 30 seconds of power drilling vs. 30 minutes of hammering on a hand drill. Power drilling is actually less impactful for owls, bats, and other wildlife.
  17. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Excellent effort, thanks.

    Bo Beck tells me that those funky 'homemade' pipe hanger straps were actually sold for climbing back in the day.

    tom
  18. stefprez

    stefprez

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    @GoClimbARock Thank you for all of your hard work in replacing the bolts and making everything safer for all of us.
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  19. bruce from bryce

    bruce from bryce

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    June 4, 2006. Mystery Canyon at one of the first rappels after the trip down the gulley. At the time it looked good to me and in case of failure of the left anchor there was a good backup. anchor in mystery canyon 6.4.2006.JPG
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