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News Critr2 now an Imlay Canyon Gear product

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ratagonia, May 8, 2019.

  1. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    When I started caving, I used non-SS bars on my brake bar rack. The bars did rust, but to no ill effect. The rope path always stayed shiny due to frequent (SRT only) use. Possible advantages of stainless: aesthetics and more wet-abuse-tolerant (e.g. spends week stored in a wet pack). A clear disadvantage is that SS is significantly harder to machine than most non-SS steels.

    If I wanted a steel device, I'd settle for plain, uncoated steel. If it were an existing design (e.g. CRITR), I'd want the shape to be scaled/modified, especially the head, to compensate for friction difference between Al and steel. Not seeing any practical benefit to a Ti version.
  2. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Thanks for the offer, the Ti plug was more for the novelty aspect - I agree with Hank’s reported assessment. I would, however, be interested in a steel option.

    (Frankly, the only Ti gear I own (if results are consistent) would work best for me in canyons that hook to the left.)
  3. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Just increased durability. I'm halfway through my third CRITR2, the one I won for learning how to tie a water knot so quickly.
    Rapterman, utahpow and ratagonia like this.
  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I hear you get out quite a bit...

    Tom
  5. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Not really, but I have a reputation for being hard on gear. Speaking of which, I'm getting ready for another Heaps pack. You put those ceramic plates in the back corners yet?
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Some love with the Through the Roof on the clean brand new pack might be helpful.

    Not so useful on the Critr.

    Tom
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  7. Canyonero

    Canyonero

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    Yea, that's a standard now. The other issue is the keg on the inside. If only I could competently use a dry bag...
  8. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    The Peregrine drybags I have now are more easily competented.

    Tom
  9. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Back to the Critr2...

    The next batch of Critrs is at the anodizer being made pretty, and we are on schedule to have them available for sale October 10th (ish, most likely).

    I have opened up ordering for those on the CanyoneeringUSA store. Four colors available: Blue Teal, Slime Green, Gold and Orange.

    I am working with the vendor to see how we can manage the production better.

    Tom

    CW Critr H1200.
  10. Helo-ops

    Helo-ops

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    Okay I know this thread is old. Just curious if anyone has broke down and bought a Conterra Scarab TI. If so what are your thoughts?
  11. NevadaSlots

    NevadaSlots

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    F2BF1069-CD64-464B-84C6-382C68418E8B. @Helo-ops I had a weak moment and bought one and have used a TI Scarab for a few months now. I absolutely love it, and in my opinion, it is one of the premier devices for canyoneering. I could really nerd out but here are a few pros and cons.

    PROS
    1.Durability
    I've used it almost bi-weekly for about 5 months and it has shown very minimal wear in a mixture of class A/B limestone and sandstone canyons (see photo). It should be noted that I go to great lengths to keep my ropes clean and sand-free and that according to Conterra the device should be retired when the crossbar wears .030". That seems like not much, but in my observation, it would take a good while.
    2. On the fly friction adjustment.
    I've found that the GRADUAL friction adjustment while on rap is very smooth and unlimited. With a heavy guy and a thin rope, I've found you can run out of simple and gradual friction additions, on a CRITR or similar. My primary ropes are various 8mm models and Sterling CIV. I've used it on 300+ foot raps with 8mm ropes without having a jerky start and having plenty of friction near the bottom.
    3. No carabiner grooves.
    Obviously, the rope does not pass through a carabiner. I use a quick link with a 90-degree twist to attaches the Scarab to my belay loop on a climbing-style harness.
    4. Inline rope travel
    The rope passes through the Scarab in a more inline/planar fashion. Rope twisting/kinking has not been observed in my experience. Also when rappeling double-strand it's easy to separate both strands on opposite side hyper-horns so you arrive at the bottom with zero twists of the two strands.
    5. Smoothness
    Sorta playing off point #2 but the SCRARB is smooth. The edges on the main body are very rounded off and the crossbar is obviously circular and an inch in diameter. That allows for a very smooth rap and very little sheath slippage. Most other devices have the first change of direction in the rope being a full 180 degree turn around the relatively small diameter main carabiner, this kinda squishes the rope and can aggravate sheath slippage. I've had to milk sheath down the core on BW canyon extreme for the entire length of some rappels while using a Hoodoo. The Scarab lets the rope take a less tortured path. This would also help with rope longevity.
    6. As a final point, just some rapid-fire positives.
    -Each friction adjustment is quite secure when weighted down, it would be hard to lose a friction addition inadvertently.
    -Smaller in size compared to other canyoneering devices.
    -Approved for use on ropes as small as 6mm or as large as 11mm.
    - Fast on and off, no unlocking and locking biners.
    -To prolong the life of the device you can rotate it between uses.
    - Easy to use whether you are right or left-handed.
    -Simple fast lock off.
    CONS
    1. Expensive
    The obvious one, you gotta be really into it to fork that cash over. Though I did get mine 10% off I think on a holiday sale. The ever-popular CRITR cost $50, will a SCARB TI last outlast 5 CRITRs, I dunno. Maybe.
    2. It's Loud
    The crossbar jangles around like crazy when walking around.
    3. I don't believe this would be the best device for serious class C canyoning. Just cuz the crossbar could swing open and release the rope if you were weighting and unweighting the rope mid-rappel in a low friction setting while in a frenzy of water and lack of visibility. Though it would be hard. Standard southwest canyoneering fair, I don't see this ever being a problem.
    4. Not as Versatile
    It's good for rappelling and lowering. Whereas some devices on the market can be used in contingency anchors, to belay with, ascend with, etc.
    5. Heavier
    It's a little heavier than other canyon devices. A new CRITR comes in at 131g the Scarab TI is 192g


    This all being said, I still love my Sqwurl, CRITR, Hoodoo, Totem, ATC etc. They all have their place. and I use them often. At the end of the day, you want to feel comfortable and proficient on the device you are using. Sometimes when you find a device that you like it's best to just stick with it.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021 at 7:25 PM
  12. Helo-ops

    Helo-ops

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    Nevadaslots, thanks for your response. Sounds very positive. I have been using a Sterling ATS and my last free hanger grooved it.
  13. jsb4g

    jsb4g

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    I have a very very different take with a bit more experience with mi Scarab Ti. First, I got mine for a lot less than you paid, so maybe it is wrong of me to complain too much, but I feel like there is a lot of misinformation out there about the durability of titanium and I've bit my tongue for long enough. The device definitely wears a LOT more than your pictures depict. I've had mine for about 18 months and done probably 30 canyons and probably over 100 raps on it up to 200 feet...mostly Utah sandstone. See attached pictures for wear. I have started rotating it around 180 degrees to use the other end of the device to slow the wear, but the side I've depicted is the side with more use. You might note the color and ask why is it blue? I anodized it to try to slow down the wear (it was a self-anodize job which is why it doesn't look professional). Waste of time. Wore through the anodized metal in one canyon. I also have a SS ATS, which is considerably more durable than the TI Scarab. The Ti Scarab is commercial grade titanium and not a Ti alloy, which may wear even faster (my understanding is that another company is offering a limited number of titanium rappel devices made of Ti-6Al-4v, which is a common alloy that has about 6% aluminum). Oh, and I weigh 150 lbs, so not like an elephant rapping down the canyons on this device. I get about a year out of a critr, so it still remains to be seen if my Scarab purchase is cost effective. I doubt it at full retail....

    I concur with points 2-6 in the Pro section and 1 and 5 in the Con section. Re other cons: Clipping it to a safety tether eliminates the jingle referenced in point 2. I've used it in class C as well as multi-tier and never had the problem mentioned in point 3. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it has never happened to me and it is hard to imagine it happening. You can belay with it just fine if you know how. Since it does not have a plaquette hole, it is limited in its ascending functionality. For contingency rigging, I prefer either (a) a normal figure 8 with rounded edges that don't get caught on the pull or (b) devices with a double sticht plate that can be rigged in jester mode (ats or totem). Seems the euro resonator is dead...too bad because it would have been a nice device for people that take out the less experienced regularly. Maybe someone here will modify their device to add a double sticht. The ATS just doesn't work well for me at 150lbs as a primary rappel device, and I don't like the totem (or the advanced version of the totem- can't remember the name).

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021 at 9:27 PM
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  14. NevadaSlots

    NevadaSlots

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    I can see mine wearing to the degree yours has, like I said I've only used it in about 10-12 canyons, rather grit-free canyons at that. Thank you for the thought-provoking points though, and I would agree with basically everything. Perhaps I'm justifying my large purchase by convincing myself it's great, which I still think it is.
    jsb4g likes this.
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