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Creative Problem Solving 101-a-ii

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by ratagonia, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. ebag irap

    ebag irap

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    Munter pop...

    Tie ropes together, rig an 8 block with bend up against rapide, opposite side of block. Rig a munter on a sling long enough to be below bend. Tie Handy Andy to the end of the rope, start to lower with munter. When rope goes tight between munter and 8 block, open carabiner and "pop" munter out, remove biner and continue to lower with 8.
  2. Mike

    Mike epic blarneys

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    How bout a munter mule on a nice sized carabiner and just passing an EDK through the carabiner?

    Edit: The knot can pass (depending on rope diameter, knot, carbiner), but it tends to grab a strand of the munter and create a potentially dangerous dynamic shock. Munter pop was an easy solution.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  3. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    How about this... shown as the lower on Rope1 is just about finished. Let the rope go all the way tight, release the second Mule.

    Double Lower.
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  4. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Seems like difficult to impossible to get a big knot to pass through a munter hitch on a carabiner... if'n that is what you meant.

    Tom
  5. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Not sure how you are going to "pop" the munter out without getting the load off the rope.

    Tom
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    The Radium Hitch being a load releasable hitch. Yes. I would use the Mariner hitch (very similar, at least in my version) as you say, which I think is an elegant solution.

    Tom
  7. ebag irap

    ebag irap

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    Did this all the time in SAR rigging... Just gotta watch those fingers :) (not my video, just found it with a quick google look)

  8. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    NICE!!!

    And you have done this with a full load in training? (Not trying to be cynical/obnoxious, just making sure it works with a full load).

    Tom
  9. ebag irap

    ebag irap

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    If the sling that the munter is hanging from is longer than in the video, it makes it easier to "vector" the rope out of the biner. Obviously there will be a slight shock load when the munter pops, but hey his hands are already broken, not like he can do much damage when you meet him at the bottom LOL! If I was doing this for real, I would probably just rig up a RRH from a cordelette and transfer the load with that. The munter pop is more of a "trick up your sleeve" kinda thing ;)

    I like your munter cloved to the loaded line, would work smooth and fast to setup. Just don't like sending a biner over the edge, especially if it would drag the knots against the rock.
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  10. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I agree. I think the munter pop is a more-elegant solution. Thank you @ebag irap , thank you @Andrew Humphreys !

    Tom
  11. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Other than the POP scaring the superlatives out of the "loadee", that is downright clever!!

    Going to have to play around with it, but I'm seeing a new trick in the bag. Thanks for sharing it!
  12. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Does require loading the munter into the biner in the correct direction at the start.

    T
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  13. Shmulik

    Shmulik

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    Sorry, but i saw this post only now.
    I've used the munter pop with a full load of 2 people more than once.
    A few important notes:
    As tome noticed all ready, the munter & the new friction device have to come from the same place, in order that the load on the new one will allow poping out the munter.
    When doing the pop, be really careful on your fingers, as when you open the carabiner and pull out we're you were holding the rope, the carabiner speen with a lot of force, it can hert for a day or 2.
    Kuenn likes this.
  14. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    For curiosity sake, have you tried setting up a mechanical advantage haul below the munter to alleviate the POP and save the fingers? (When it's not time critical.)
  15. Shmulik

    Shmulik

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    MA dont work so easy in the real world after 200 feet.
    They would work, definitely, but it will waist alot of tome.
    The munter pop, you need to know by feeling once, how to do it without hearting the fingers.
    Any way MA is the last resorce, when technically if i will jam theoretically on a knot, i will add a friction knot to the new rope & cut the rope at the friction device.
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  16. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    Our "real worlds" are obviously different then. I have used MAs on drops much longer than 200 feet....much, much longer. FWIW

    I concede the time, yes, when practical. If you're lowering a group of six, it might just be worth the time.
  17. Shmulik

    Shmulik

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    It does work, as i mentioned, but not so easy.
    Tell me what MA you use on a small Cliff, & what you use for 2000 ft?
    When you want to get down you have 2 things to consider.
    1. Is it safe enough.
    2. Is it done in reasoble time.
    From my point of view to start pulling up is the last resorce even so i have done hauling out of caves efficiently.
    Don't waist energy if you don't have to, hitches or the poping munter will do a way better job.
    Check it out...
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  18. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    I accept your points and don't disagree. For the sake of the argument...I can setup a Z rig in 5 minutes (if, I'm slow). Yeah, I'll probably struggle lifting two people on a Z, but I'm pretty sure I have enough mass to lighten the load enough to lessen or even eliminate the pop.

    2000 or 200.... they're just numbers.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017 at 10:56 PM
  19. Shmulik

    Shmulik

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    The numbers count out & in wrong way.
    200 is not twice 100...
    Friction is our kill part.
    Friction will eliminate what you can lift.

    With poping munter it happend to me as a guide that the was a shortage of rope & the clients didn't know or realize that they haved been stopped since it's so fast.
    Just go out there try it out (obviously back yourself & dont trust what i say)& come back.
  20. Shmulik

    Shmulik

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    And that is it written in a great book "climbing self-rescue

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