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Creative anchor solutions

Discussion in 'Tech Tips and Gear' started by Deagol, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    Not just two bolts, but two Metolius rap hangers? A very specific anchor, indeed. While a situation favoring the "Y" might actually be considered...a bit contrived..., I truly admire the spirit of inquiry and problem solving that has gone into these anchor discussions. Please, carry on! :twothumbs:
  2. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    I agree, but it was a specific regulation that Arches NP posted I was trying to adhere to
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  3. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    I thought the bolts were Petzls??

    But in any case, they were the nice big rounded ones that wouldn't cut webbing or rope if threaded through them.

    Darn, now I wish I had a picture of that anchor.

    they were something like (but not exactly) this
    http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&b...39&tx=77.20001220703125&ty=108.20000457763672
  4. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    DSC01415.
  5. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    those look like Metolius rap hangers...unless another mfg. is also producing a similar product. Is that the actual anchor, Mountaineer?
  6. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    in any event, pulling ropes through hangers (even the rounded ones) is not generally a good idea - wears them out rapidly.
  7. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Easy enough to put rapid links on bolt hangers, "rap" anchors or otherwise. They provide a round pulling surface, and are easily replaced.

    Depending on what the pull looks like, it is not clear ON THIS ANCHOR that the webbing serves any purpose that a couple rapid links on each bolt would not server better, cleaner, more durable and conforming to the rules.

    Webbing is good when the line of pull is over an edge. Rapid links in this case tends to tear up the rock and should be avoided out to the very end, where it hangs in the air and does not touch the rock.

    Tom
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  8. hank moon

    hank moon kinetically bulbous

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    ^^^What he said^^^
  9. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    those weren't the only bolts that were there when I went through. I think there is another beefier rounded set more out on the face...
    I think the ones out on the face were there first and were the ones I was expecting based on what beta I had read (and the ones I used) and these ones were added before I actually made it out there, but after the beta I used was written..

    I also remember the webbing on the "new" set of bolts being purple back then...
  10. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Correct, that is what I recall. 2-3 bolt sets on the final rap. Not sure if I got a pic of "another set", but the older ones are these:

    DSC01416.
  11. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    That looks like the set from the first rap and not the final rap..

    hard to remember exactly without pics.....
  12. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Using only a couple of rapid links (not extending) may increase the forces on each bolt. Not exactly sure in this case, but it appears that the angle would be 90 or less so OK.

    I've also had a situation on pulling through a couple of links (that were really close) my rope wouldn't pull. I think the link bound up with the rope going into the other link as they were so close together? I simply pulled the other strand and it came free.
  13. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    I don't think so...my time stamp on the pics happened at the same time, and my pic of me finishing the last rappel was just a few minutes later.
  14. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Good ol' Pika hangers. Ran into Josh (Pika) at Home Depot last weekend. Doin' great. Just produced a bunch of Ibis hooks I dimly recall...
  15. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    I need to go search through my pics as well, but I do remember the first rap was way easier to set up and I did take a picture of the rigging. I am pretty sure I remember those bolts and the gentler slope of the wall on the right side of the canyon (LDC) while there was a v-slot above the final rap and both sets of bolts were on the left LDC.
  16. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    Found the pics...
    first one is from the first rap, rigged with the klemheist equalization of 2 bolts method (this was a few years ago, prior to Fiddlestick- I wouldn't rig this way anymore). Arches NP policy said not to leave webbing, so that's why it was rigged like this. IMG_1816.JPG


    this is the final rap, I don't have a pic that shows the bolts themselves, but here is the rigging, image altered to protect the innocent.
    Img_1822.
    You can see the anchor is on the left LDC, even though the bolts are out of the pic.
  17. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Who is that all in camouflage yellow? :)
  18. Deagol

    Deagol too many hobbies

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    Predator.... before he got that invisibility thing worked out ;)
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  19. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Good point, essentially an American Death Triangle using the rope.

    However, if the bolts are at all good, the forces generated even with a Death Triangle are moderate and well within the strength range of the bolts. Old Crappy Bolts - yeah, best to avoid Death Triangles.

    But, there is another problem. If the bolts are side by side, and when pulled the rope goes up to one ring, turns 90 degrees to go to the other ring, then back down, THEN when the rope is pulled it tends to twist, and the twists can create a pigtail that jams. Certainly better to have vertically offset bolts with either a long enough chain to get from one bolt to the other, or the lower bolt backs up the upper bolt with potential short extension if the top bolt should fail.

    Or a chain or a chain of Rapid links so that the chain off each bolt can be adjacent.

    Tom :moses:
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  20. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Interesting (clever) equalization/retrievable system!!!

    Tom
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