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Chain vs Webbing

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by rcwild@wildernessmail.net, May 7, 2001.

  1. The advantage to placing chain on an anchor is that it eliminates the need for anyone to leave rainbows of webbing behind. The disadvantage is that, if not placed correctly, chain can damage the rock. Especially if that rock is soft sandstone.

    Most people place bolts horizontally, then install webbing or chain to form a "V". The bolts need to be placed far enough apart that they do not rely on one small piece of rock. The farther apart the bolts, the more chain or webbing is needed to keep the angle under 90 degrees. A long piece of chain swaying in a strong wind or with the water current can quickly chisel away at the rock. This may be the reason that some people remove chain and replace it with webbing.

    Consider placing bolts vertically or near-vertically instead (especially when using chain). If placed vertically, the chain is used to allow the upper bolt to back up the lower bolt. If placed near-vertically, the chain is set up to form a "check mark". Either way, the anchor will require significantly less chain.

    Set up correctly, there will be no sway from the wind and very little from water current. If possible, anchors should be placed in a location that is protected from the water course. Doing so will completely eliminate sway from water current.

    I have not been back to Zion since our rendezvous there last August. I am curious to know how our chains are faring at the Cathedral in Pine Creek and the last drop in Mystery. Has anyone descended either canyon yet this year?

    Rich
  2. Tom Jones

    Tom Jones Guest

    I remember placing chain on 4 anchors in Behunin this fall and winter:

    1. First rap - 2 bolts on R past Kelsey's (dead) tree. Out of the flow.

    2. Calico Basin - 3 bolts in very soft rock. Occasionally in water flow.

    3. Slab Rappel into pool on R - first rap past the first set. Not in flow.

    4. Last Rappel under chockstone. Definitely in flow when above medium level.

    In all cases I used existing bolts, so I did not have much choice about the location or rig - ya get what ya get.

    Q: What does the damage look like at which anchor?

    I took the hot zinc coating off with vinegar because the shiny stuff is pretty obnoxious. Is this not working? Is the rusty chain unsightly, dirty and/or gross? If so I can look at other ways of de-shining, or other finishes, such as a light lacquer coat after de-shining.

    Tom

    ps, descended Mystery last week. Final chains look great.



    On Mon, 07 May 2001, rcwild@wildernessmail.net wrote:


    The advantage to placing chain on an anchor is that it eliminates the > need for anyone to leave rainbows of webbing behind. The disadvantage > is that, if not placed correctly, chain can damage the rock. > Especially if that rock is soft sandstone.
    Most people place bolts horizontally, then install webbing or chain > to form a "V". The bolts need to be placed far enough apart that they > do not rely on one small piece of rock. The farther apart the bolts, > the more chain or webbing is needed to keep the angle under 90 > degrees. A long piece of chain swaying in a strong wind or with the > water current can quickly chisel away at the rock. This may be the > reason that some people remove chain and replace it with webbing.
    Consider placing bolts vertically or near-vertically instead > (especially when using chain). If placed vertically, the chain is > used to allow the upper bolt to back up the lower bolt. If placed > near-vertically, the chain is set up to form a "check mark". Either > way, the anchor will require significantly less chain.
    Set up correctly, there will be no sway from the wind and very little > from water current. If possible, anchors should be placed in a > location that is protected from the water course. Doing so will > completely eliminate sway from water current.
    I have not been back to Zion since our rendezvous there last August. > I am curious to know how our chains are faring at the Cathedral in > Pine Creek and the last drop in Mystery. Has anyone descended either > canyon yet this year?
    Rich

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