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Boundary

Discussion in 'Utah' started by gloo, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. gloo

    gloo

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    I'm going to be taking 1 mildy experienced canyoneer and 4 noobs to zion in early July, and too late to secure any permits to say spry or echo. Not ideal in any way, but I'm trying to find a canyon I can take these guys down to experience the real fun. I've only done boundary once a few years ago, it was bone dry and a handful of trip reports I've read show the same; but a lot of beta says bring wetsuits. Thoughts on this? I'm not worried about getting to MIA in kolob creek as that's manageable without wetsuits this time of year in my experiences. I'm also toying with fat man's and water canyon but both have drawbacks (longer; guide central).

    I may just end up taking these noobs through sulfur creek.
  2. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Report from this weekend is that Boundary is dry. On the hike in, the stream is running a bit, but it goes dry before the head of the canyon.

    Boundary not necessarily a good canyon for noobs. It is remote. Something goes wrong, you are a long way from help. Jus' sayin'... You did not make a statement about your skill level, so I am just stating the cynical viewpoint.

    Fat Man's can be brutal => threatening heat exhaustion in July, or it can be good. But clearly, a long day, especially for noobs.

    Pipe Spring Canyon is somewhat lesser level than Boundary. Still remote, but quite a bit shorter day. Just rappelling (essentially), and only half the MIA exit. I think this would be more enjoyable for noobs, and you would not have to rush the pace all day like you would in Boundary.

    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/technical/pipe-spring-canyon/

    What's wrong with Pine Creek? recent reports say almost no water in there.

    Tom
    Rapterman likes this.
  3. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    In most conditions, I would recommend a wetsuit. Plus, things can change from what you expect. Best to be prepared.

    What is your experience taking noobs through canyons? Experience in self rescue (i.e. getting stuck on a rope)? Technical aspects aside, Boundary combined with the MIA is a physical day. Without experience and a clear understanding of your groups fitness level, an alternative is probably wise.
    Rapterman likes this.
  4. gloo

    gloo

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    I have taken more noobs through canyons than I care to admit lol. Remoteness doesn't worry me, plenty of medical knowledge in the group me included. I've done boundary once but kolob 4x so I know the area well. I've also done misery in middle of summer. early start. hang out by the river till later evening. boom. I'm not worried about my skill level, nor their fitness levels. I'm going to take them to dogwood and put them through a canyon basics 101 as well.

    Tom...alas Pine creek and all other canyon permits are full, consequences of late plans. Unless I want to throw down something waay too epic for them like checkerboard. This isn't my trip necessarily, but I'm gonna try to get them to consider UBB. remote, yes. but also offers similar to what they want in zion.

    edit: thanks for the report on boundary though, that was my main objective!!
  5. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    You could do Keyhole for a taste of a technical canyon. It is short, but you could do something like lower Zion Narrows afterwards. To fill in the weekend, you could also do Kannara Creek and/or Ashdown Gorge.

    What about Birch Hollow? It would be hot and possibly crowded though.

    The Sulphur Creek you mention is a good non-technical option and fun. Not that far away is Crescent Creek:

    http://www.climb-utah.com/Powell/crescent.htm

    It is a perfect first technical canyon.

    If you want a three day weekend, a good itinerary would be Sulphur Creek, Crescent Creek, and lower Maidenwater.

    Boulder Creek, near Boulder Utah is a good summer one too and isn't that far from Sulphur Creek.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  6. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I hope you mean Birch Hollow, Scott.

    :moses:
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  7. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Good to hear.

    So - you do know that only half of the quota in each canyon is reservable in advance... right? So it is not true to say "permits are full" - more accurate to say "advance permits are full"... Can enter into the last minute drawing for the canyons that have it, or just saunter up to the desk and try to get a permit.

    Tom
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  8. Scott Patterson

    Scott Patterson

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    Yes. Birch Creek isn't a noob canyon.
  9. bhalvers2002

    bhalvers2002

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    Agree with Tom on Pine Creek. I went through Pine Creek with a group of 8 a week ago Saturday. I originally submitted for 12 but then gave 4 back when our group finalized on 8 - so 4 spots turned back in. I don't really know what happens all the time but I was shocked we didn't see anyone else except 2 rangers at the beginning. Our group had several noobs and we took our time. Enter around noon and excited final rap after 4:00 (yes quite slow). Never heard anyone else behind us. Point being, I am a little surprised another 60 or 70 people went through before us that day. My conclusion, either some extra permits floated around at desk (turned back in) or people use Pine Creek as backup option and if they are lucky with something else, their spots go unused (conjecture). Last minute lottery is worth a shot and if you land on day of and have the ability - ask at back country desk.

    Either way pipe spring or boundary sound good depending on comfort with group.
  10. Yellow Dart

    Yellow Dart It's only hubris if I fail.

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    Here's one: Icebox Canyon, up in the Kolob quintant. The approach will be in the shade if you start early enough, the pools will be refreshing by the time the sun is up, wetsuits aren't necessary this time of year (limited, short swims, and no rapps starting or ending in water means in and out), and none of the rappels are overly complicated. Permits easy.

    And another: Observation Point Canyon, drive to the top to save them knees - or if you do hump up, do it in the morning in the shade. Again, none of the raps are complicated, and wetsuits unnecessary. And permits easy as well, not to mention the convenience of the main canyon. The sticker on this one, though, is a 300' rap, mostly freehanging, to finish, which is daunting for greenhorn - to wit I'd say make sure they've a fireman, and they hang their packs off their hardpoints.
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  11. Tom Collins

    Tom Collins

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    I would say that Boundary is easier than Icebox, and the hike out of Icebox would be a beast this time of year, not strenuous, but long and exposed to the sun. Doing it in the heat of the day after Icebox would be miserable. Great canyon just not this time of year. I say the best plan is to apply for the last minute drawing for canyons like pine creek, spry, echo, etc, and keep Boundary and Water as backups in case you don't win a permit.
  12. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    James Yellow Dart - your empathy muscle seems to have been disconnected. Noobs + 3 raps longer than 250 feet??? Compadre, what you thinking?????

    Also, Observation Point Canyon is a south-facing bowl with extensive slightly sketchy slab downclimbing in the middle. I was having trouble seeing because of the sweat pouring into my eyes... in January! Doing it now, the only way to do it would be at night!!!

    Puh-lease!!!

    Tom
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  13. Yellow Dart

    Yellow Dart It's only hubris if I fail.

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    Hah, I expected something along those lines from you, sir. I am notorious in my peer group for throwing people down Englestad as a first canyon; really tests their mettle.

    Always good for a :rofl::
    69106918.

    If you called me a sadist, you wouldn't be entirely wrong.
  14. Yellow Dart

    Yellow Dart It's only hubris if I fail.

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    I'd take an evening exit after a dip in La Verkin Creek over the MIA hump anyday. But to each their own! :thumbsup:
  15. Craig

    Craig Feeling My Way

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    If I had noobs with good fitness, I'd take them down Birch Hollow, down Orderville, then out through the Narrows. That is a long, fun, strenuous day but something everyone will remember.

    I've never had problems getting permits for Lower Refrigerator. It is not so much a canyon as two downclimbs and two rappels. It is easy to get to, very short, possibly hot in July, and can have some litter at the first downclimb. But it has spectacular views of the main canyon, two exciting downclimbs, an interesting rap to a little ledge, and then a not-to-be-missed rap from that ledge down into a beautiful weeping garden alcove. I even like the short bushwhack from the alcove back to the WestRim trail. Then you just have to go to the Lodge and fight the crowds to get an ice cream cone and relax under the shade of the Cottonwood trees.

    Craig
  16. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    I have found down Birch, up Orderville to the Corral is a full day when with noobs.

    Down Orderville and out the Narrows from there - with noobs, that would be a very long day. Late night menu at the Bit closes at 11... jus' sayin'...

    Tom
  17. Rapterman

    Rapterman

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    Tom is being un-characteristic-ally generous.
    Dude with avatar rappin' face first sans helmet:
    Please put
    "JUST YANKIN YER CHAINS!"
    after all of your posts
    so maybe you won't go killing someone
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  18. spinesnaper

    spinesnaper

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    And of course it is an extremely long walk from the Temple of Sinawava to the Bit N Spur if you miss that last scheduled shuttle at 9:15.:facepalm:
  19. Dave Melton

    Dave Melton

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    Learned that one the hard way coming out of Englstead a couple of years ago. At least I only made it to the Lodge before my wife came looking for us, so I got a ride the rest of the way to the Bit N Spur
  20. Ronnie Winn

    Ronnie Winn

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    Gloo, My 2 cents (actually this is worth a whole NICKEL) of input would be to take them down Birch Hollow. Start early to miss all of the large groups that don't know what they are doing, and exit back UP Orderville. Pretty long day, and it will be a bit hot on the exit, but a very nice canyon and a good experience for those less experienced canyoneers.
    In the mean time, try like the dickens to get last minute drawing permits for Pine Creek, Spry, or Mystery?
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