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Alternate Rap, last Rap in Pine Creek - add bolts?

Discussion in 'Archives - Yahoo Canyons Group' started by TomJones, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.

    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm

    Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.

    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.

    What do y'all think?

    Tom
  2. Das ist vorbotten to add bolts in Zion! Is n't it???????

    Aware that bad existing bolts can be replaced but how would the park feel about adding a second rap station? Don't get me wrong, it would really help to speed things up and add something new to a trade route. Just don't want to see anyone getting spanked over that.

    Dave



    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "TomJones" ratagonia@gmail.com> To: Yahoo Canyons Group Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 5:30:03 PM Subject: [from Canyons Group] Alternate Rap, last Rap in Pine Creek - add bolts?

     



    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.

    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm

    Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.

    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.

    What do y'all think?

    Tom
  3. Rick

    Rick Guest

    I think its a great idea Tom, go for it. I have never dropped in from there, but was tempted to the last time I was there, both because it was new and different and looked interesting, and because of the huge group in front of me at the final drop. Was with some newbies, who were a little squeemish about the drop, looking into it, and I decided against it, since I had never dropped in there and wasn't sure about the exit from the pool below, but it is clearly an acceptable alternative to the standard drop, as well as a way to ease the congestion and waiting time there. Which you can't fully appreciate until you get there behind a newbie group of 12 with three harnesses between them.

    rick t --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.
    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm
    > Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.
    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.
    What do y'all think?
    Tom >
  4. aj.outdoors

    aj.outdoors Guest

    I've done the rap you are talking about, and it IS quite cool. Wasn't there a second drop though? I think we were able to downclimb it; but I thought it was a spicy downclimb. (It's been a while though, so I could be remembering wrong.)

    Anyway, for a trade route like that, as long as it's cool with the Park, I'd be all for it. I too have waited at that spot (when both options were in use...)

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.
    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm
    > Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.
    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.
    What do y'all think?
    Tom >
  5. Adam C

    Adam C Guest

    Is this where there used to be a single 1/4" spinner, located directly in the water course, that was used to access this "upper" cathedral? --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Rick" <gone2moab@...> wrote:
    I think its a great idea Tom, go for it. I have never dropped in from there, but was tempted to the last time I was there, both because it was new and different and looked interesting, and because of the huge group in front of me at the final drop. Was with some newbies, who were a little squeemish about the drop, looking into it, and I decided against it, since I had never dropped in there and wasn't sure about the exit from the pool below, but it is clearly an acceptable alternative to the standard drop, as well as a way to ease the congestion and waiting time there. Which you can't fully appreciate until you get there behind a newbie group of 12 with three harnesses between them.
    rick t > --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "TomJones" <ratagonia@> wrote:

    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.

    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm

    > Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.

    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.

    What do y'all think?

    Tom
    >
  6. TomJones

    TomJones Guest

    Adam - there used to be a couple bolts from the Ancients to the right of the blocking rock, when there was a log-and-debris ledge there. That ledge is largely gone, and I removed the bolts that were there quite some time ago. (I no longer remove historic bolts, even in Zion).

    AJ - the rappel drops you down at the edge of a pool, the pool being only ankle-to-knee deep, but dropping the rope bag down there sure makes a big loud splash! Yes, there is a second part to the drop, looks hard but actually is not very hard at all, especially with your pack off. It ends in the pool at the base of the drop, often up to waist deep. Can always meat-anchor the kids down, though the meat anchored rope descent follows a very different line than the regular downclimb, and puts the kids in the deepest part of the pool. Could continue on the same rope off the anchor above, and it would pull just fine, but... might be very close to a little longer than 100 feet. Also, by doing the downclimb, you stay 100% out of the line of fire from the "regular" anchor.

    Tom

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Adam C" <cynhermit@...> wrote:
    Is this where there used to be a single 1/4" spinner, located directly in the water course, that was used to access this "upper" cathedral? > --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "Rick" <gone2moab@> wrote:

    I think its a great idea Tom, go for it. I have never dropped in from there, but was tempted to the last time I was there, both because it was new and different and looked interesting, and because of the huge group in front of me at the final drop. Was with some newbies, who were a little squeemish about the drop, looking into it, and I decided against it, since I had never dropped in there and wasn't sure about the exit from the pool below, but it is clearly an acceptable alternative to the standard drop, as well as a way to ease the congestion and waiting time there. Which you can't fully appreciate until you get there behind a newbie group of 12 with three harnesses between them.

    rick t
  7. Mark Rosen

    Mark Rosen Guest

    > What do y'all think?

    I've done that rap a couple times because of large groups ahead of me doing the standard rap. I don't recall the anchor being a problem but if there is a good place to place something more permanent I'm not against it.

    Your saying cathedral rap sort of confused me. The cathedral rap being upcanyon and this is the alcove or final rap. You did say final rap and then second cathedral. The cathedral can also be a bottleneck but I think that one just has to wait his turn on that rap. Best to do the canyon very early or very late on busy days and avoid the crowds.

    Mark
  8. kuenn_k2

    kuenn_k2 Guest

    For the sake of weighing in as an out-o-area opinion, I think it's a good call.

    Quick story, our first time down PC in July 2011 we were unaware of the location of the primary last-rap anchor (gotta know where to look) and spotted some webbing at this drop. I figured this wasn't the main drop area, due to the absence of hangers and the plethora of them elsewhere, but we were pushing daylight and decided to go for it. The start was a little awkward but that just adds to the splendor. And the big rope bag splash-echo in the pool below created some quick eye glances from the group.

    After doing the classic drop this year, which is equally sweet, I can't say I prefer one over the other.

    -k

    --- In Yahoo Canyons Group, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
    There's a different way to do the last rap in Pine Creek, kinda a second Cathedral rappel. Not many bring a long sling for it. Some people tie off a rock or log. I am thinking of putting in a two-bolt anchor for this version of the final drop.
    http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0905pine/index2.htm
    > Partly because I hear of people waiting hours to get on the final rap... when there could be two independent raps going at the same time.
    Partly because the rock rappel kicks derriere. Yes, the other rap is classic, but this one is too, putting people into a really cool place.
    What do y'all think?
    Tom >
  9. hank moon

    hank moon Guest

    Good point, AJ. A new anchor might become a rope groove generator due to the small drop (down the watercourse - used to access the grotto from the bottom).

    See discussion on Bogley about another short, easy downclimb:

    http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?65788-Stuck-Rope-on-Spry&p=512526#post512526



    On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:03 PM, aj.outdoors ajmail2011@gmail.com> wrote:

    I've done the rap you are talking about, and it IS quite cool. Wasn't there a second drop though? I think we were able to downclimb it; but I thought it was a spicy downclimb. (It's been a while though, so I could be remembering wrong.)
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