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Accident waiting to happen

Discussion in 'Accidents and Near Misses' started by Mike Zampino, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    I came upon this anchor when desecending cascade creek in Ouray this past weekend. One end of the rope was tied around a tree about 10 feet above. The rope hung down with a figure 8 on the bottom with a quick link. This part was rubbing across a rough edge. There was at least 1 group of 2 in front of us that used this. :eek: Needless to say, this became part of my Canyon Trash.

    P1050429.JPG
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  2. Shane

    Shane

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    did the previous group inspect this anchor and choose to ignore it?
  3. Southern Canyoneer

    Southern Canyoneer Desert Hiker

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    We did Cascade Creek in late July and I do not remember any anchor like that....what rap was it on? What did you think of Cascade Creek?
  4. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Hey, the sheath just protects the core, which is where most of the strength is anyhow, eh? We have a mutual friend (downtown Mel Brown) who used to tape the core shots on his climbing ropes. They looked worse than that...ha ha.
  5. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    Are you insinuating you would trust this? You could tell the core was damaged. To what extent I do not know, but to trust your life on it? Go for it! :thumbsup:
    Especially since you can tell the rick was sawing the rope and it already made it's way through the sheath.
  6. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    I cannot remember. I think the one before the first 200ft. I loved the canyon, but it was a long day taking a group of 10 through there for the canyoneering festival.
  7. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Something I could only judge in person. What diameter cord/rope? If that's 8mm, I'd make sure the core felt mostly there, and, maybe. The bigger issue for me would be what caused it to be damaged in the first place, and, having that situation not dealt with.

    Load test it? We could take bets on what it would fail at. Folks might be surprised.

    Tom tested a rope we trashed on a rappel that had half the sheath worn off, and, some damage to the core. I think we were both surprised how high it failed. Was a static rope, though.

    I guess a bigger surprise would be if you trusted it and it did fail though...
  8. Mike Zampino

    Mike Zampino Canyon season never ends.

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    I think you are just playing devils advocate. If you had webbing with you, I'm guessing you would replace it. I have it at home now and plan on load testing it. I bet it will hold more than I expect, but why trust your life to it? If you want, instead I will mail it to you and you can rap off of it...maybe in heaps?

    If in doubt, do you just go for it?

    (anyone have suggestions on how to test it meaningfully?
  9. rick t

    rick t

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    Cascade is a famous rope eater, with lots of sharp edges. Three years ago we had a 10 foot core shot/sheath stripped incident on the exit 300 footer.
    With an old Bluewater pro, which is a twisted core, not kernmantle, there was NO question it would not have held 1 more rappeller- quick action on the bottom saved the 4 people still waiting to rap on top. caveat emptor.
  10. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Let's see - it rubbed against an edge that cut the sheath... the sheath is WAY MORE cut-resistant than the core... the core is now rubbing against the same edge.

    Seems pretty clear-cut to me.

    Tom
  11. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Just because it has a twisted core does not mean it is not still a kernmantle rope. These are not exclusive categories.

    Tom
  12. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    Great catch Mike. Glad you fixed this one. :)
  13. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Is that an X slot?

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    I had a friend at Lake Powell once climb a ripped apart sheeth with just the core exposed, some of those strands broken! It was dangling down to the lake, left from a descent from some canyon prior most likely. I'm probably not much of a friend, as I couldn't convince him to not climb it.
  14. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Sure, send it to me. I'll rap off it. PM me and I'll give you my address.
  15. Brian in SLC

    Brian in SLC Brian in SLC

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    Me too. Move the anchor location.
  16. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    I have a friend that works in a test lab, I'll be happy to have him strength test it for you. Either way be sure and post the results...
  17. ratagonia

    ratagonia

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    Irrelevant!

    I think you are really missing the point. Strength == portion of the core fibers still intact.

    The problem is, without a sheath, the core cuts rather easily. Presumeably, the sheath is gone BECAUSE is it rubbing across a sharp edge. Next step, total annihilation of the core. That the removed piece is close to full strength is rather beside the point.

    jus' sayin'

    Tom
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  18. Kuenn

    Kuenn

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    I'm in total agreement with you.

    I'm just curious George at this point. If enough rope was available, a thorough test would consist of; breaking a section with no sheath damage, a section of core only, and then the damaged section (I doubt he has that much rope). Again, it would prove nothing, just informational comparisons only.

    If the damaged piece broke at 100 or 1000 lbs it wouldn't change my opinion of whether it should be trusted in the field. My sorry life might not be worth much but it's worth more than to take that risk. I've scrapped stuff that looked far better than it before. :)
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